Worship Bass Pedalboards

[SteveC]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

I don't think cabsim is that important. I was using a REDDI for a while and it sounded just fine all by itself. I now have an HX Stomp and while I do have a preset that uses a cab, the "studio DI" or an amp head without a cab work just fine. Different flavors. Nice to have the options, but I wouldn't call it necessary.

 

[furym]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

I find it necessary for me to hav a decent IEM tone. FOH probably has their own thing they could do but if I send them dry then my IEM tone comes back very sterile.

 

[jacoby75]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

"Important" is all relative. IMHO, for a straight, clean bass tone - like modern gospel, pop, funk, etc. - a cab sim isn't necessary at all. Unless you want it to sound like you're actually playing through a certain type of bass rig, as far as the various EQ curves and feels that different bass cabs can give you. But I prefer a "warmer", "fatter," more "vintage" tone (while acknowledging all of those terms to be relative and difficult to define/quantify). I typically play with a slight bit of hair on my tone. If I use any sort of drive, distortion, etc., even just that tiny bit of "pushed tube amp hair" sound, and am running direct (which is pretty much always these days), I find a good cab sim to be absolutely essential. It takes the harshness out of the tone and makes it warmer, more amp-like (clearly). Wouldn't leave home without it. And I like knowing the exact tone I'm hearing in my in-ears is what they're hearing at the FOH.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

I spent several years DI only at our previous church. No cab sim. Never missed it.

 

[jam.majors]

There was one thing I asked for with IEMs at the last church I played them: a separate channel from the house for my bass (or one could ask for pre-EQ). Our room was tuned weird, so the post-EQ in my ears was insanely thin. It was easier as they used a digital board.
Even if they re-tuned the room, I'm sure they'd need to do some EQ adjustments for the house that I didn't want to experience in my ears.

 

[wolffire99]

"Important" is all relative. IMHO, for a straight, clean bass tone - like modern gospel, pop, funk, etc. - a cab sim isn't necessary at all. Unless you want it to sound like you're actually playing through a certain type of bass rig, as far as the various EQ curves and feels that different bass cabs can give you. But I prefer a "warmer", "fatter," more "vintage" tone (while acknowledging all of those terms to be relative and difficult to define/quantify). I typically play with a slight bit of hair on my tone. If I use any sort of drive, distortion, etc., even just that tiny bit of "pushed tube amp hair" sound, and am running direct (which is pretty much always these days), I find a good cab sim to be absolutely essential. It takes the harshness out of the tone and makes it warmer, more amp-like (clearly). Wouldn't leave home without it. And I like knowing the exact tone I'm hearing in my in-ears is what they're hearing at the FOH.

Sounds like our tone is very similar. I've heard cabsim affects "response" but I don't really know exactly what that means.

 

[prndltech]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

It's 100% personal preference. I have used it, and had set ups without a cab sim that also sounded great!

edit* I should have added that I also have a Khan VTDI after either, so it always have some tube warmth.

 

[jacoby75]

Sounds like our tone is very similar. I've heard cabsim affects "response" but I don't really know exactly what that means.

I'm not exactly sure. That could mean a few different things. "Response" as far as frequency response? A cab sim will cut off various amounts of the lows and highs, and will accentuate certain frequencies, depending on the design. Some cabs sims have purer signal reproduction than others. Some impart more color, depending on your preference. It could and does also affect the "response" in terms of play and feel to play through a good IR. As others have noted, though, most of what we deal with when we start talking about effects really is just a matter of personal preference. I never used a cab sim or pedalboard for most of my 30+ years of playing, and was completely fine without it. Mic the amp or take a direct feed from the preamp. In the studio, give the producer/engineer a pure tone and let them tweak it to their liking post-production. It worked fine for decades. But then I started playing at churches in small towns with inexperienced sound men, and started this journey of trying to craft the perfect bass tone to send to them, so all they had to do was turn it up. And it has turned into an out of control board including all sorts of effects and of course cabs sims. But at least in the name of simplicity, no matter what effects I am using or how many different things I have programmed into the patch on my HX Stomp, 9 1/2 times out of 10, I close it out with an Ampeg SVT 8x10 IR. 99% of the time, it works every time.

 

[fauxtoe]

For those of you that are DI only, how important or useful is having cabsim? And how does it help at church?

I don't use a cab sim, or at least not one that is labeled as such. I've found that the YYZ pedal has been the secret sauce in my IEM rig when it's dialed to "not Geddy." It sounded great into the Starlifter preamp that I used for a while, and it sounds even better into the Genzler Magellan preamp with a dose of contour B and some mild EQ shaping depending on which bass I'm using.

Going direct without a preamp/cab sim makes for a very thin sound in my experience. When we've had other bassists play who went into nothing but a direct box I was told it sounded pretty awful, and that was with a standard P bass.

 

[MovingPitchers]

I may need to give that YYZ pedal another shot because I definitely tried to make it sound like good ol' Geddy and I realized his tone is quite possibly one of the worst for P&W music....

 

[jacoby75]

I may need to give that YYZ pedal another shot because I definitely tried to make it sound like good ol' Geddy and I realized his tone is quite possibly one of the worst for P&W music....

Lol! Yes, very much so.

 

[fauxtoe]

I may need to give that YYZ pedal another shot because I definitely tried to make it sound like good ol' Geddy and I realized his tone is quite possibly one of the worst for P&W music....

Oh I agree totally his tone would be the absolute worse for it! However, running the YYZ in a much more subtle mode works very, very well. The key factors being the blend shifted towards the Deep side to about 10/11 o'clock, mid at 3 o'clock or higher, dial in drive to just before breakup (about 9 o'clock for me) or a little hair if you'd like it - which will vary the position depending on the signal coming in to it, tight engaged, and set bass and treble to taste. I find I have to cut some bass more often than not to clean it up. That should at least get you started should you want to try and use it.

 

[MovingPitchers]

Oh I agree totally his tone would be the absolute worse for it! However, running the YYZ in a much more subtle mode works very, very well. The key factors being the blend shifted towards the Deep side to about 10/11 o'clock, mid at 3 o'clock or higher, dial in drive to just before breakup (about 9 o'clock for me) or a little hair if you'd like it - which will vary the position depending on the signal coming in to it, tight engaged, and set bass and treble to taste. I find I have to cut some bass more often than not to clean it up. That should at least get you started should you want to try and use it.

Hmmmmmm good to know! I'm aiming to ultimately move away from amps on stage and just using some kind of preamp DI so the YYZ or the GED-2112 DI are options. OFC, there are other preamp DIs out there that I am open to.

I thought about doing a mini pedalboard with a preamp DI, volume pedal, compressor, and a Micro synth but my main requirement is just being able to adjust EQ (because our sound team doesn't do that on their end) and a drive sound since we don't have elec when I play bass.

 

[Johno Dunn]

Hmmmmmm good to know! I'm aiming to ultimately move away from amps on stage and just using some kind of preamp DI so the YYZ or the GED-2112 DI are options. OFC, there are other preamp DIs out there that I am open to.

I thought about doing a mini pedalboard with a preamp DI, volume pedal, compressor, and a Micro synth but my main requirement is just being able to adjust EQ (because our sound team doesn't do that on their end) and a drive sound since we don't have elec when I play bass.

Throw a Source Audio EQ2 on there. Great tuner, noise gate and a limiter included. And an endless amount of EQ possibilities.

 

[dmc79]

I've had Tone Hammer on my board for almost 15 years now (the same unit the whole time). I love it. You're correct about the power but it will work with the supply Aguilar has (I can't remember if it came with it or not), and it's very easy to find power supply units that run 18v. It will also run off phantom power if needed.

For me it has worked great with my passive basses, great with my active 4s and 5s, and works great at the end of my chain after a bunch of weird effects. It really can handle it all very well.

With AGS on the gain and mid controls become very interactive. You can get the gain pretty high and stay fairly clean with a mid scoop, and with as you increase the mids the drive starts to shine through.

I typically run it with the gain at 9-10 o'clock, mid freq at about 1 o'clock and mid level at about 2-3 o'clock. Treble usually flat, bass to taste for the room and the bass I'm playing. Very nice warm and vintage tone, plays clean and warms up nicely when you dig in.

I love the Tone Hammer. I have two of them.

I run it after my HXStomp. That way, when I use different basses with different output, I can send a little extra or less to the sound man to compensate for the bass output. I can also tailor the sound for the room without digging into the stomp settings. The 2nd one is on my other big board.

My only gripe about it is that the AGS circuit is either an on all the time or off all the time circuit. I wish there was one more knob to adjust the AGS circuit, so that when it was engaged, I could get the grit but still maintain unity with the clean channel.

Thanks guys. I am now in possession of a Tone Hammer DI for the first time. Interested in any setting recommendations. I liked to run a little drive, say 10:30 (but not much character, 9:00 or less, and no bite) on the VTDI, so I will most likely try AGS on but with low gain. It's a while since I had sweepable mids (and even then, it was on the super clean MXR M81), so I will have to figure out what sounds good in ears / in the room there too.

I read a trick about plugging IEMs into a 1/4 inch headphone adapter into the 'Out' of this box, to use it as a headphone amp. I hope this works, as I've loaned out my practice amp! I must say I really like the sound of "Very nice warm and vintage tone, plays clean and warms up nicely when you dig in". Any more Tone Hammer fans out there with good starter settings? TIA

 

[Zbysek]

Thanks guys. I am now in possession of a Tone Hammer DI for the first time. Interested in any setting recommendations. I liked to run a little drive, say 10:30 (but not much character, 9:00 or less, and no bite) on the VTDI, so I will most likely try AGS on but with low gain. It's a while since I had sweepable mids (and even then, it was on the super clean MXR M81), so I will have to figure out what sounds good in ears / in the room there too.

I read a trick about plugging IEMs into a 1/4 inch headphone adapter into the 'Out' of this box, to use it as a headphone amp. I hope this works, as I've loaned out my practice amp! I must say I really like the sound of "Very nice warm and vintage tone, plays clean and warms up nicely when you dig in". Any more Tone Hammer fans out there with good starter settings? TIA

Read the "Tone Hammer DI appreciation thread" here on TB.

There are many tips for sertings…

 

[fauxtoe]

Hmmmmmm good to know! I'm aiming to ultimately move away from amps on stage and just using some kind of preamp DI so the YYZ or the GED-2112 DI are options. OFC, there are other preamp DIs out there that I am open to.

I thought about doing a mini pedalboard with a preamp DI, volume pedal, compressor, and a Micro synth but my main requirement is just being able to adjust EQ (because our sound team doesn't do that on their end) and a drive sound since we don't have elec when I play bass.

Food for thought - I tried to switch over to the GED-2112, but with the way it's designed in comparison to the YYZ it was harder to dial in what I wanted and it didn't work well with the rest of my setup. None of that is to say it's bad in any way, it just has to work for you. Having the YYZ in the chain before my preamp/DI to be able to bring it in to taste has worked far better.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I don't use a cab sim, or at least not one that is labeled as such. I've found that the YYZ pedal has been the secret sauce in my IEM rig when it's dialed to "not Geddy." It sounded great into the Starlifter preamp that I used for a while, and it sounds even better into the Genzler Magellan preamp with a dose of contour B and some mild EQ shaping depending on which bass I'm using.

Going direct without a preamp/cab sim makes for a very thin sound in my experience. When we've had other bassists play who went into nothing but a direct box I was told it sounded pretty awful, and that was with a standard P bass.

At my last church, we never had a problem going direct through a RedDI. Even the ubiquitous SansAmp sounded OK (if not as good as the RedDI), whether with P, Jazz, or Thunderbird (depending on who was playing).

With my ME Super 800+, everyone seems happy with my [Tbird] tone whether DI only (rare), amp only (most common), or a mix. I need to find someone local with an ME 300 and try that.

That said, these are not huge spaces. Were I playing in a larger or outdoor space, I might well want a cab sim.

 

[epoxo57]

Thanks guys. I am now in possession of a Tone Hammer DI for the first time. Interested in any setting recommendations. I liked to run a little drive, say 10:30 (but not much character, 9:00 or less, and no bite) on the VTDI, so I will most likely try AGS on but with low gain. It's a while since I had sweepable mids (and even then, it was on the super clean MXR M81), so I will have to figure out what sounds good in ears / in the room there too.

I read a trick about plugging IEMs into a 1/4 inch headphone adapter into the 'Out' of this box, to use it as a headphone amp. I hope this works, as I've loaned out my practice amp! I must say I really like the sound of "Very nice warm and vintage tone, plays clean and warms up nicely when you dig in". Any more Tone Hammer fans out there with good starter settings? TIA

I have had a TH for years and have played many times at church with great success in my IEMS and overall mix. Its a great, versatile preamp/DI that is now taking a break after getting an Origin Effects SV that I am really digging. I can't see unloading it, though. For settings, I always engaged the AGS with low gain, mid character around 10 or 11:00, mids slightly boosted, bass around 3 and treble to taste. Always worked well with a Pbass. Go to Aguilar's YT channel and they have a few suggested settings as well with their TH head but is pretty close to the pedal unit.

 

[Zbysek]

Thanks guys. I am now in possession of a Tone Hammer DI for the first time. Interested in any setting recommendations. I liked to run a little drive, say 10:30 (but not much character, 9:00 or less, and no bite) on the VTDI, so I will most likely try AGS on but with low gain. It's a while since I had sweepable mids (and even then, it was on the super clean MXR M81), so I will have to figure out what sounds good in ears / in the room there too.

I read a trick about plugging IEMs into a 1/4 inch headphone adapter into the 'Out' of this box, to use it as a headphone amp. I hope this works, as I've loaned out my practice amp! I must say I really like the sound of "Very nice warm and vintage tone, plays clean and warms up nicely when you dig in". Any more Tone Hammer fans out there with good starter settings? TIA

Below find links to threads with settings recommendations:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/tone-hammer-di-appreciation-thread.1488330/page-6

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/hammer-time-post-your-tone-hammer-settings.476857/

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ag...mer-500-3-8lbs-500w-megathread.717712/page-89