Worship Bass Pedalboards

[wolffire99]

However, if I have to cut a lot, if not most of the mids to make it work, then it's counterproductive. At least to me. That's why it doesn't make a ton of sense to me to have the "Bethel" EQ setting in most other scenarios, because the majority of other churches and systems tend to not cut the way Bethel does. It works for them, because of the way their FOH

The mid cut on the TH is a fairly tight Q with a frequency range that goes into the highs and lows, so in the bethel setting it’s cutting around 200hz to my ears while boosting 80-100hz which is just another way of keeping a compressed drive sound from becoming too muddy and leaving that space for guitars. I don’t see it as a true mid cut like on other eq’s.

 

[IanA]

I think at 9 o clock the frequency is 385hz

 

[Zbysek]

However, if I have to cut a lot, if not most of the mids to make it work, then it's counterproductive. At least to me.

Why?

 

[projectapollo]

I no longer play at larger churches or at conferences, and as such the mix is less dense.

I think the Tone Hammer with AGS off is a great way to go and will sound excellent with your P Bass. In recent weeks, I am really sort of blown away by how good my Fender CS-P sounds plugged directly in to the Mantle DI. I don't miss the always-on saturator devices. I just need a couple of devices for a small number of the ambient layers, driving bridges, and cinematic choruses.

 

[IanA]

I think the Tone Hammer with AGS off is a great way to go and will sound excellent with your P Bass. In recent weeks, I am really sort of blown away by how good my Fender CS-P sounds plugged directly in to the Mantle DI. I don't miss the always-on saturator devices. I just need a couple of devices for a small number of the ambient layers, driving bridges, and cinematic choruses.

I agree with you on how a good Precision doesn’t really need a lot of help. I took just my tonehammer and a tuner on a rockboard 2.0 this Sunday and didn’t miss overdrive, synth or anything else that I could have added.

I think there is a real freedom in turning up minimal and just enjoying playing bass.

I have also regularly seen bass players tapping on pedals and then honestly not being able to hear any discernible difference to the FOH mix (Bethel style church with awesome PA and engineers)
Makes me wonder whether what Jesse Reeves said a few years back was true? (It all sounds like bass in the house)

 

[TaySte_2000]

I think the Tone Hammer with AGS off is a great way to go and will sound excellent with your P Bass. In recent weeks, I am really sort of blown away by how good my Fender CS-P sounds plugged directly in to the Mantle DI. I don't miss the always-on saturator devices. I just need a couple of devices for a small number of the ambient layers, driving bridges, and cinematic choruses.

And what couple of devices are doing that for you at the moment? (Anything new? Anything standout?)

 

[wolffire99]

I think the Tone Hammer with AGS off is a great way to go and will sound excellent with your P Bass. In recent weeks, I am really sort of blown away by how good my Fender CS-P sounds plugged directly in to the Mantle DI. I don't miss the always-on saturator devices. I just need a couple of devices for a small number of the ambient layers, driving bridges, and cinematic choruses.

180-400 range I think but same theory still applies it’s more of a hi-low cut than a mid cut down there.

 

[projectapollo]

And what couple of devices are doing that for you at the moment? (Anything new? Anything standout?)

I am happy with what I've been using: the Double Dragon, Bass Microsynth, and the HX One. The Double Dragon can cover the Bass Microsynth territory, as well.

 

[rcmbass]

There is nothing like a little THDI to get the fellas talking.

I don’t recall where I got this, but the sender told me he got it from Aguilar directly regarding the Tone Hammer DI.

MID FREQ: 180 Hz to 1 kHz

From Tone Hammer
* ~7 o’clock - ~180 Hz
* ~9 o’clock - ~385 Hz
* ~12 o’clock - ~590 Hz
* ~3 o’clock - ~795 Hz
* ~5 o’clock - ~1 kHz

 

[kazuhank]

I am happy with what I've been using: the Double Dragon, Bass Microsynth, and the HX One. The Double Dragon can cover the Bass Microsynth territory, as well.

Yeah, the Double Dragon got close enough that I sold my Bass Microsynth.

 

[Church-Bass]

Since everyone is sharing, this is my THDI settings - not useful without the settings of my other pedals on my board, but just sharing anyway -it's not dissimilar to others. TH and AGS always on.

 

[bignc]

Not usually always on, I had intended to just use it on day of victory, but I left it on and it sounded great. With the gain below 11 o’clock it can pull off an AGS always on type of thing, although different. Less compressed, little more grindy.

Passed noon it will get heavy enough to pull off micro synth with octave going into it. Which is what I usually do with the second stage. Bump up the gain just before a big moment with a sub octave.

I don’t use the 385’s fuzz mode, it’s too much.

And it’s here. I think it can do everything. I have cleans that I like- spotless or mildly saturated. This thing has everything else. It is on a board that is sentimental too and the inspiration for the pedal fits perfectly!

 

[AObando2002]

Why?

To me the majority of body and character to me is in the mids. The lows is the weight and highs is the presence. If you scoop the mids too much, then you’re really robbing the punch and body of the bass. Same as guitars. I’m primarily a guitar player. It’s become such a trend to scoop guitars heavily. Well, it’s been a thing in modern metal for a while, but it’s really been recently a thing in worship mix. Scooped guitars, scooped bass, scooped keyboards. That’s just me. I like present guitars and present bass.

 

[Zbysek]

To me the majority of body and character to me is in the mids.

I agree. That's why I like what AGS does to my tone. See the chart in post No. 1825 in the following thread.

Post in thread 'Aguilar - Official 'Tone Hammer 500' 3.8lbs 500w Megathread!'

Nov 9, 2012

Okay, here are some plots of the drive control. I scoped this with as little overdrive as possible, by adjusting the gain and input volume on the head, then I normalized the results so that you can compare the two.

Each graph has the white line (which is drive completely off) and the Green line which is the drive at either 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, or full on. The EQ knobs were at NOON on all these graphs...never touched them. Yes, I could have tweaked them to get the graph more flat if I wanted, but that kind of defeats the point. You can see on the first image below that the...

• Eublet

• 

If you scoop the mids too much, then you’re really robbing the punch and body of the bass.

I generally agree. The situation is different with AGS though. With AGS on, the tone is mid forward. Even when one cuts mids (with the level control at, let's say, 9 o'clock) there is still plenty mid frequencies left. I am using the mids controls to change emphasis. When I want emphasis on high mids, I cut low mids (frequency control between 8 and 11 o' clock). When I want emphasis on low mids, I cut high mids (frequency control between 1 and 4 o'clock).

When I am cutting low mids (more often), I usually increase Bass control to compensate. When I am cutting higher mids, I usually don't need to do that...

 

[IanA]

Has anyone tried BDDI v2? V1 was a touch scooped especially with high blend settings but the demos of V2 that I have heard sound a lot more natural.

 

[Deleted member 409773]

Has anyone tried BDDI v2? V1 was a touch scooped especially with high blend settings but the demos of V2 that I have heard sound a lot more natural.

I've tried a lot of configurations and a lot of preamps and I keep coming back to the BDDI v2. Yes, it has that scoop at 750/800hz, Treble is at 3.2khz (basically high mids), Presence is at 4.5/5khz, and it's boost only. The fact that I can switch the bass to 80hz (to make room for the kick drum) and the mids to 1khz (to accentuate that scoop at 800hz with another little scoop to make room for guitars and vocals or other instruments) is a deciding factor for me. Plus the harmonic saturation and that roll off at 35hz and 6khz are again crucial, because I can make the bass mix ready. With all these features it is present on more platinum recordings than all other bass preamps combined. From Pino Palladino, Tony Levin and Mike Porcaro, to Rex Brown, Sam Rivers and Fieldy, this SansAmp has been present on recordings and live, it has dominated the bass world for 3 decades.

Many people also talk about compressors or preamps that they want transparency, but I realized something, transparency is the enemy of music. Transparency does not put bass in the mix, transparency does not cut frequencies that clash with other instruments.

Initially I was a fan of Empress, for example, which is not exactly transparent, but I returned to Cali76 which makes a roll off in the lows and highs, pushes and harmonically saturates the mids and through that it sounds in the mix. Many people associate transparency with studio tools and that's totally wrong, effects and studio tools are there for personality, not for transparency. Urei 1176, LA-2A, Distressor with Dist2 and Dist 3 (even and odd harmonics, i.e. tube and tape) are not transparent. Neither are Neve 5088 or 8068 consoles. Without even or odd harmonic distortions the sound has no life.

That's my opinion, that's why I'm not looking for transparency anymore, but for effects/pedals that put my bass in the mix without much effort on my part, in other words, effects that work for me in the mix, necessarily in the mix. What sounds great solo, usually doesn't work in the mix. The problem is people judge the BDDI (v1 and v2) as a preamp, when they should judge it as a 'mix-in-a-box'. There’s a reason this pedal is on more platinum records than all other bass preamps combined.

Transparency is for Mastering, Character is for Tracking. The quest for a "transparent" preamp or compressor (like the Empress) often ignores how records are actually made. Studio icons like the 1176 (Cali76), LA-2A, or Neve consoles are famous specifically because they color the sound. They add harmonic saturation and "weight" that give an instrument life.

 

[IanA]

I've tried a lot of configurations and a lot of preamps and I keep coming back to the BDDI v2. Yes, it has that scoop at 750/800hz, Treble is at 3.2khz (basically high mids), Presence is at 4.5/5khz, and it's boost only. The fact that I can switch the bass to 80hz (to make room for the kick drum) and the mids to 1khz (to accentuate that scoop at 800hz with another little scoop to make room for guitars and vocals or other instruments) is a deciding factor for me. Plus the harmonic saturation and that roll off at 35hz and 6khz are again crucial, because I can make the bass mix ready. With all these features it is present on more platinum recordings than all other bass preamps combined. From Pino Palladino, Tony Levin and Mike Porcaro, to Rex Brown, Sam Rivers and Fieldy, this SansAmp has been present on recordings and live, it has dominated the bass world for 3 decades.

Many people also talk about compressors or preamps that they want transparency, but I realized something, transparency is the enemy of music. Transparency does not put bass in the mix, transparency does not cut frequencies that clash with other instruments.

Initially I was a fan of Empress, for example, which is not exactly transparent, but I returned to Cali76 which makes a roll off in the lows and highs, pushes and harmonically saturates the mids and through that it sounds in the mix. Many people associate transparency with studio tools and that's totally wrong, effects and studio tools are there for personality, not for transparency. Urei 1176, LA-2A, Distressor with Dist2 and Dist 3 (even and odd harmonics, i.e. tube and tape) are not transparent. Neither are Neve 5088 or 8068 consoles. Without even or odd harmonic distortions the sound has no life.

That's my opinion, that's why I'm not looking for transparency anymore, but for effects/pedals that put my bass in the mix without much effort on my part, in other words, effects that work for me in the mix, necessarily in the mix. What sounds great solo, usually doesn't work in the mix. The problem is people judge the BDDI (v1 and v2) as a preamp, when they should judge it as a 'mix-in-a-box'. There’s a reason this pedal is on more platinum records than all other bass preamps combined.

Transparency is for Mastering, Character is for Tracking. The quest for a "transparent" preamp or compressor (like the Empress) often ignores how records are actually made. Studio icons like the 1176 (Cali76), LA-2A, or Neve consoles are famous specifically because they color the sound. They add harmonic saturation and "weight" that give an instrument life.

View attachment 7484547

That is great info thank you.

I totally agree with your point about flat response gear. It really isn’t mix ready! Having something that is just plug and play can take the stress out of setup and sound check

 

[wolffire99]

See the chart in post No. 1825 in the following thread.

Fyi, those graphs are for the tone hammer amp with very different drive control than the DI. I know I’ve seen similar ones for the DI but I forget where. Having both they are similar but also different.

 

[projectapollo]

If you scoop the mids too much, then you’re really robbing the punch and body of the bass.

I've tried a lot of configurations and a lot of preamps and I keep coming back to the BDDI v2. From Pino Palladino, Tony Levin and Mike Porcaro, to Rex Brown, Sam Rivers and Fieldy, this SansAmp has been present on recordings and live, it has dominated the bass world for 3 decades.

I never thought of the Tone Hammer AGS as scooped.
That is interesting about the BDDI and its use on recordings. I had no idea.

There is a lot of buzz on TB right now about the new Mesa preamp/DI priced at $199. Someone should try one and report.

 

[Zbysek]

Fyi, those graphs are for the tone hammer amp with very different drive control than the DI.

The third graph shows "roughly where the pedal starts as SOON as you engage the AGS circuit, even if the gain is completely off." - see the comment the third graph...