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Yamaha PA question

W

Wayne8

Sep 25, 2008
378
5
69
Jackson, Mississippi
#1
Can someone look at this:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-EMX5016CF-S115V-SM15V-PA-System-?sku=630608

And help me with ohms/speakers?

It says the mixer puts out 500 watts into 4 ohms - would that be the two mains and the two monitors?

It says it puts out 350 watts into 8 ohms (UA) and 320 watts into 8 ohms (H). What does that mean?

I can't figure out how many watts this thing will do with just the two mains and the two monitors.

Can someone help me?

Thanks!
 
#2
The mixer has 2-500 watt power amps built in. You could run your 2 mains off one amp and the 2 monitors off the other. Looks like a nice packaged system.:) In other words you would have 500 watts for your mains and 500 for your monitors.
 
#5
Not to rain on your parade, but I'm not sure there is enough power in the mixer to properly run the mains and the monitors.

The way I read it, the power handling of one of the mains is 500 watts program and 1000 peak and that it has a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. If you daisy chain the mains (assuming they are wired in parallel), the impedance would be 4 ohms. At 4 ohms, one of the amps in the mixer would put out 500 watts, this would then be divided between the two speakers connected to it, feeding each speaker only 250 watts. A general rule of thumb is to take the "program" rating of a speaker and multiply it by 1.6 to 2, giving the range of recommended power (which should not be more than the "peak" rating of the speaker). In this case, the rule of thumb would tell you to use an amp capable of providing 800 to 1000 watts at 8 ohms to each speaker. The monitors have the same power handling capacity as the mains.

It is also my understanding that underpowering speakers can cause as much or more damage than overpowering them. You will be pushing the amps harder, and will be more likely to clip than with amps of adequate or excess power.

I would ask a lot of questions before making the purchase.
 
#6
scootron said:
Not to rain on your parade, but I'm not sure there is enough power in the mixer to properly run the mains and the monitors.

The way I read it, the power handling of one of the mains is 500 watts program and 1000 peak and that it has a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. If you daisy chain the mains (assuming they are wired in parallel), the impedance would be 4 ohms. At 4 ohms, one of the amps in the mixer would put out 500 watts, this would then be divided between the two speakers connected to it, feeding each speaker only 250 watts. A general rule of thumb is to take the "program" rating of a speaker and multiply it by 1.6 to 2, giving the range of recommended power (which should not be more than the "peak" rating of the speaker). In this case, the rule of thumb would tell you to use an amp capable of providing 800 to 1000 watts at 8 ohms to each speaker. The monitors have the same power handling capacity as the mains.

It is also my understanding that underpowering speakers can cause as much or more damage than overpowering them. You will be pushing the amps harder, and will be more likely to clip than with amps of adequate or excess power.

I would ask a lot of questions before making the purchase.
Click to expand...

While the speakers are definitely underpowered with this arrangement, I have used the same Yamaha power sections on a previous version of this powered mixer, with the same ratings and same speakers, and it worked great for small to medium bar/club rooms. I did this for a couple years with no issues. Later down the road I sent the signal for the mains to a separate power amp to push the mains at proper power and just used the onboard mixer amps for the two monitors.
 
#7
scootron said:
Not to rain on your parade, but I'm not sure there is enough power in the mixer to properly run the mains and the monitors.

The way I read it, the power handling of one of the mains is 500 watts program and 1000 peak and that it has a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. If you daisy chain the mains (assuming they are wired in parallel), the impedance would be 4 ohms. At 4 ohms, one of the amps in the mixer would put out 500 watts, this would then be divided between the two speakers connected to it, feeding each speaker only 250 watts. A general rule of thumb is to take the "program" rating of a speaker and multiply it by 1.6 to 2, giving the range of recommended power (which should not be more than the "peak" rating of the speaker). In this case, the rule of thumb would tell you to use an amp capable of providing 800 to 1000 watts at 8 ohms to each speaker. The monitors have the same power handling capacity as the mains.

It is also my understanding that underpowering speakers can cause as much or more damage than overpowering them. You will be pushing the amps harder, and will be more likely to clip than with amps of adequate or excess power.

I would ask a lot of questions before making the purchase.
Click to expand...
WRONG If you do a search on this topic you will see that underpowering speakers does not damage them.
 
#8
modulusman said:
WRONG If you do a search on this topic you will see that underpowering speakers does not damage them.
Click to expand...

My wife wrote the above, as she is the sound person for our band (I just play bass), but I think her point is valid if you follow it through. I did the research you suggested, and overdriving an amp which is not powerful enough to drive your speakers to the level you desire can cause clipping. Clipping can cause speaker components to overheat and blow.

In this sense, underpowering the speaker can cause damage. But you correct in saying that a steady flow of low power to a speaker can never damage it, so long as the amp is not being overdriven to the point of clipping.

Do you agree with that?
 
#9
Underpowering your speakers is not going to hurt them until you start to push them a little bit. But the same goes for overpowering them. Your best bet would be to use 1 main speaker per amp channel and run the aux out to a seperate power amp to run your monitors.
 
#10
scootron said:
My wife wrote the above, as she is the sound person for our band (I just play bass), but I think her point is valid if you follow it through. I did the research you suggested, and overdriving an amp which is not powerful enough to drive your speakers to the level you desire can cause clipping. Clipping can cause speaker components to overheat and blow.

In this sense, underpowering the speaker can cause damage. But you correct in saying that a steady flow of low power to a speaker can never damage it, so long as the amp is not being overdriven to the point of clipping.

Do you agree with that?
Click to expand...
If the OP is going to have to drive the snot out of this PA then he needs to get something bigger and more powerful. If the PA is running into clipping all the time then it would be possible to blow the horns. I would imagine that most blown drivers are from over-powering not under.
 
#11
jtrow said:
Underpowering your speakers is not going to hurt them until you start to push them a little bit. But the same goes for overpowering them. Your best bet would be to use 1 main speaker per amp channel and run the aux out to a seperate power amp to run your monitors.
Click to expand...

This is what we wound up doing. It took us a while to build up our system, but we ultimately acquired a QSC 1850 for our mains, an ART SLA-2 for our monitors and, last, a QSC 1450 for our sub. The mixer had a builit-in crossover. It was worth the wait, as we can now play most venues around here with this rig, and have even played outside with it a couple of times.

We started out with new mains and the 1850, and just used a very old Peavey powered mixer to power a couple of old beat up monitors until we could afford new stuff. My opinion is that it is better to buy the best stuff you can afford one piece at a time. But, everybody has their own approach.
 
#12
Wayne8 said:
Can someone look at this:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-EMX5016CF-S115V-SM15V-PA-System-?sku=630608

And help me with ohms/speakers?

It says the mixer puts out 500 watts into 4 ohms - would that be the two mains and the two monitors?

It says it puts out 350 watts into 8 ohms (UA) and 320 watts into 8 ohms (H). What does that mean?

I can't figure out how many watts this thing will do with just the two mains and the two monitors.

Can someone help me?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have a very similar system, but with the EMX512 mixer and BR15 speakers.

Yes, you can run everything off that mixer. The thing to take away from the "underpowered" argument is that you absolutely should not try to push your PA to the point where it distorts, as the distortion can blow your speakers.

That 500W + 500W amp is plenty enough power for any club where you don't need to mic the drums, or at least that's what we use ours for. For anything bigger, we use the house PA or borrow or rent a bigger one from somewhere.

The way to hook it up--there should be a switch or button somewhere that lets you switch the amp from L/R to Main/Monitor. Connect the main output to one main speaker, then run a cable from the 2nd connection on the main speaker over to the other main speaker. Do the same for the monitors. Those cabinets are wired with the jacks in parallel, so even though it looks like you're daisy-chaining the speakers together, you're really wiring them up in parallel and getting max power out of your amp. This ONLY works with 8-ohm speakers--if you hook 4-ohm speakers this way to that mixer you'll overload the amp.
 
#13
Clipping, in itself, does not cause loudspeaker drivers or crossover components to heat up any more than unclipped signals do. Dynamic loudspeaker drivers are <<10% efficient, so they heat up when power is applied regardless of whether it's clean or distorted. Over 90% of the power in the signal turns into heat and not acoustical energy.

When an amp clips, it puts out power in excess of its rating. With severe clipping, it may put out much, much more power than its rating would indicate. Therefore, an amp rated at, say, 400 watts into 8&#937; could be a safe pairing with 8&#937; loudspeakers rated at, say, 500 watts continuous &#8230; but only if you're careful to avoid significant clipping. If you drive the amp into heavy clipping, you could easily cause it to put out greater than 500 watts for periods of time, possibly causing the loudspeaker to fail. Keep in mind, though, that you could also destroy the loudspeakers with the same amount of power from a more powerful amp that doesn't clip.

In short: It's not the clipping, it's the power.

Clipping distortion causes additional harmonics in the signal, and that may endanger tweeters and compression drivers. But clipping also tends to partially obliterate HF signals that ride on the usually larger LF signals, so the net power delivered to the HF driver by a passive crossover may be something of a wash, depending on the program material.
 
#14
I use what is basically an earlier version (EMX5000) of what you are looking at, and it's plenty for small to medium bars/clubs, or small outdoor events. We've never run out of power, but then again, have never played to more than 150 people without FOH support.

What's your intended use?
 
#16
Jehos has it right. You can run 2-8ohm mains for "mains," and 2-8ohm monitors for monitors. it will work fine. if you ever want to build onto the system it is easy. You can run 2- 8 ohm mains PER SIDE to get the full potential out of the mixer, then you run a 1/4" line fro Aux Send 1 to a monitor amp, then use that to power more than 2 monitors, you can even run Aux send 2 to give the drummer a different mix. Then you can run another 1/4" from "Mono Out" to a set of Active subs, yada yada yada etc. etc. Yammy powered mixers have all the goodies built on them. Its even got 2 channels of 16 effects ea. that you can play with, reverb and delay are my personal favs.
 
#17
jtc_hunter said:
Jehos has it right. You can run 2-8ohm mains for "mains," and 2-8ohm monitors for monitors. it will work fine. if you ever want to build onto the system it is easy. You can run 2- ohm mains PER SIDE to get the full potential out of the mixer, then you run a 1/4" line fro Aux Send 1 to a monitor amp, then use that to power more than 2 monitors, you can even run Aux send 2 to give the drummer a different mix. Then you can run another 1/4" from "Mono Out" to a set of Active subs, yada yada yada etc. etc. Yammy powered mixers have all the goodies built on them. Its even got 2 channels of 16 effects ea. that you can play with, reverb and delay are my personal favs.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you meant to say you can run 2-8 ohm speakers per side. I don't think the mixer is capable of running at 2 ohms
 
#18
modulusman said:
Not sure if you meant to say you can run 2-8 ohm speakers per side. I don't think the mixer is capable of running at 2 ohms
Click to expand...
Yes it will do 2-8 ohm speakers per side, but not if you run monitors too. You would have to run the monitors from a signal from Aux 1 or Aux 2 thru another power amp/EQ. 4 ohm load per side stereo. If you want to study it before you buy, go to the Yamaha website and download the owners manual.
 

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