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"You should help him get help" ...

#21
RustyAxe said:
Reading posts in the Band Management forum I come across posts that read "my <insert band member> has < substance abuse; mental illness; anger management; socialization problems; OCD; ADHD> and it's affecting the band, what should I do". Many respond that instead of firing the offender, they should get help for the member. I'm in a band, not a social services agency. If a member can't cut it, for whatever reason, it's time to let him/her go. Sure, I can sympathize, empathize, and even point them toward the help they need, but they are out of the band.

What do others think?
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I'm with you on this. What's worse is having to work with people like this everyday and I can't fire them!!!
 
#25
Ooo I just made one of these threads the other day. Normally, as an outsider looking in, it's pretty easy to tell someone to run for the hills when things aren't good. It's a bit harder to judge when you're involved, usually because you'll have closer relationships with the person/people in question. The advice to get them to seek help seems to come more from a personal relationship point of view than the band point of view, and while it's not your responsibility, it can kinda feel wrong if you don't do it because of the friendship. I'm still getting through my little band problem child issues right now so I can see both sides.

Either way it can be a pain, and some people will listen while others never will. Maybe the advice to seek help is a benefit of the doubt thing, but I figure it's a worthy option at the beginning of an issue.
 
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#27
Joe Nerve said:
I heard someone say once that the only way you can help someone is if they:

1. Need help.
2. Want help.
3. Want YOU to help them.

I don't know if I agree with that 100%, but it's certainly good guidelines.
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One of the best ways to help someone is to stop enabling them. Make their consequences their own, rather than everyone else's.
 
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#28
We just recently had to let go of our lead singer because the drama just go too much. I do this for fun. If it ain't fun, I ain't doin' it. The whole band took her out for a coffee and told her she needed to deal with her demons. We wished her the best of luck, and told her to give us a call when she's got her act together. Hope we can remain friends... yada, yada, yada... Let us know if you need any help.

I would do anything for friends and family, and consider her a friend, but I refuse to let other peoples drama affect my well being or livelihood.
 
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#29
If you live in a pretty big city, musicians are relatively easy to find. So the fire/ragequit then replace method works just fine.

If you live in a small town, firing a guy probably means you aren't going to be in a band for the next few years, so the idea of trying to fix a broken band member is less stupid than some of you may think. ...Still, it's a longshot at best. People tend to not change.
 
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#30
IME, I've learned that I'm certainly not qualified to help in some situations even with the best of intentions. You can have a band member that's addicted or facing personal demons, but just telling them to quit or get their act together isn't going to help nearly as much as a trained professional that has experience and specific skills related to a range of addictions and behaviors. I could also tell them to seek seek professional help, but if they don't have the insurance or funds, all I'm doing is presenting an option that isn't actually available to them. I can help a friend fix their basses, but I'm not much use in fixing addictions or personal demons. I can be a good friend, but terrible therapist or counselor.

As a BL, I have to think beyond just the musician with a problem. As much as I wish they can overcome their demons, I still have the other musicians to consider and the client who pays good money that I have a signed contract with. Even if I wanted to deal with a band member's demons, I can't expect the other musicians and clients to deal with them.
 
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#31
RustyAxe said:
Reading posts in the Band Management forum I come across posts that read "my <insert band member> has < substance abuse; mental illness; anger management; socialization problems; OCD; ADHD> and it's affecting the band, what should I do". Many respond that instead of firing the offender, they should get help for the member. I'm in a band, not a social services agency. If a member can't cut it, for whatever reason, it's time to let him/her go. Sure, I can sympathize, empathize, and even point them toward the help they need, but they are out of the band.

What do others think?
Click to expand...

I agree with you, at least on the assumption that being a band mate is your only relationship to the person. If their problem hurts the band, then if you allow them to continue in the band you're just being an enabler. Often the best way to get them to seek help is to show them that what they're doing has consequences - like getting kicked out of the band.
 
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#32
jive1 said:
IME, I've learned that I'm certainly not qualified to help in some situations even with the best of intentions. You can have a band member that's addicted or facing personal demons, but just telling them to quit or get their act together isn't going to help nearly as much as a trained professional that has experience and specific skills related to a range of addictions and behaviors. I could also tell them to seek seek professional help, but if they don't have the insurance or funds, all I'm doing is presenting an option that isn't actually available to them. I can help a friend fix their basses, but I'm not much use in fixing addictions or personal demons. I can be a good friend, but terrible therapist or counselor.

As a BL, I have to think beyond just the musician with a problem. As much as I wish they can overcome their demons, I still have the other musicians to consider and the client who pays good money and that I have a signed contract with. Even if I wanted to deal with a band member's demons, I can't expect the other musicians and clients to deal with them.
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You are connected to that band mate more than you know. My first employer. Told me "Leave your Problems at the Door" ( before you come in) easy to do if one is somewhat normal. If one is sick of either mind/body/spirit, it may be impossible without Help, Understanding, and Love. Probably the hardest to do, is to have an experience with a person you love, in this case "my lay in a Drunken stupor everyday of his life Dad" and watch their misery become yours. But you must keep trying. It made my resolve even stronger not to be lead down a path of destruction.
 
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#37
jive1 said:
<good stuff snipped>...
As a BL, I have to think beyond just the musician with a problem. As much as I wish they can overcome their demons, I still have the other musicians to consider and the client who pays good money and that I have a signed contract with. Even if I wanted to deal with a band member's demons, I can't expect the other musicians and clients to deal with them.
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Very well said. I suppose what happens here is that we all tend to assume that everyone else's band situation is like our own ... and that's not true. Someone above made a point about the availability of other musicians, for others it's a pleasant hobby, for others it's a hustle for the next gig, and on and on. In the "real world" if your problem causes disruption in the workplace, or causes you to under perform your duties and such ... you'd be fired. Period. I see it the same way with a band. I've said before, and pardon me for repeating, but the great Louis Armstrong once told a band member who using dope and screwing up on stage, "don't **** up my hustle!" ... and fired the guy.
 
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#38
Joe Nerve said:
I don't think it's your responsibility to get anyone help. I think the ethical, mature, and caring thing to do though is let the person know how their actions or inactions are affecting you or the band, and let them know if it doesn't change they're going to be replaced.

I think it's a lowlife move to fire people without discussing the issues first, unless it's for some heinous type of action.
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Couldn't have said it any better. You don't have to drive the to the rapist, but just as a good human you are obligated to give somebody a shot at changing.

You should explain to them exactly what the offending actions are (because if they really are mentally ill they may not know).

Then you (collectively as a bamd if there is no BL) should set forth a time limit within which they have to change.

Now, if it's something I can handle and someone I care about I will also offer to help out. But if it's something you need special qualifications to deal with or someone I barely know, honest adult communication is about what I have to offer them.

Wrong way to handle it.
"Hey Bob, you always lick your left cheek and jingle your pocket change exactly 15 times between songs. You're fired."

Right way to handle it.
"Hey Bob, you seem to have some habits that cause long delays between songs. They seem to be repetitive like perhaps some sort of OCD. We feel for you but the delays have to stop. If you need help, go get it. But if the delays don't stop we're going to have to look elsewhere for a crab core oboe player dude. Lemme know if I can help. Good talk."
 
#39
two fingers said:
Right way to handle it.
"Hey Bob, you seem to have some habits that cause long delays between songs. They seem to be repetitive like perhaps some sort of OCD. We feel for you but the delays have to stop. If you need help, go get it. But if the delays don't stop we're going to have to look elsewhere for a crab core oboe player dude. Lemme know if I can help. Good talk."
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And I could have said that better :).

I agree 100%.
 
#40
two fingers said:
Right way to handle it.
"Hey Bob, you seem to have some habits that cause long delays between songs. They seem to be repetitive like perhaps some sort of OCD. We feel for you but the delays have to stop. If you need help, go get it. But if the delays don't stop we're going to have to look elsewhere for a crab core oboe player dude. Lemme know if I can help. Good talk."
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I would disagree with this completely. Presuming a diagnosis is arrogant, insulting, and more than likely incorrect. Rather, address the problematic action without playing Armchair Psychologist.
 

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