"You should help him get help" ...

[LiquidMidnight]

I've dealt with all types in the musical situations I've been in, but luckily, I've avoided the illicit substance abuser, at least as far as any long-term project goes. However, I played for years in a band with a singer who went off the rails in his personal life about half way through. I think he always had some serious mental issues that he was good at hiding, but once he got divorced from his third wife, his life went crazy. He hit the bottle pretty hard, could no longer keep down a day gig, started dating crazy bar skaggs and groupies, showed all kinds of erratic behavior on stage, vocals were often terrible because he wasn't taking care of his voice anymore, has gotten arrested a few times, etc.

We had a number of Come To Jesus meetings with him, but nothing ever stuck. It all culminated one night after a gig in which our guitarist, who is otherwise a very nice guy, threw singer into the side of his car. We parted ways with that singer then and continued with another vocalist.

If you care about someone, then you should get them help. On the other hand, I've learned that you can't control other people's behavior and you can't take responsible for their behavior either. Sometimes a split is the only viable option: either that person splitting from you or you splitting from them.

 

[RustyAxe]

They're not directly comparable. In the military, a first offense is usually met with a mandated substance abuse program and counseling. Refusal to meet those requirements usually gets and Article15 which is half pay, and extra duty for 15-30 days, AFTER a reduction in rank so pay is even less. Refusal to meet that is jail time. The commander also can choose to do an other than honorable, or dishonorable discharge which essentially ruins your life as far as many future jobs are concerned.

In a combat unit (remember, we were using the warrior analogy) someone who is unreliable or inept is removed from that duty and replaced (or fragged). Period. I'm not suggesting a fired band member never be allowed to play music (or fragged!)... he just won't play in my band.

 

[whatizitman]

I work in mental health. Here's my two cents.

No, you really can't help someone who isn't ready or willing to help him or herself. And, yeah, enabling is generally not helping, although we as humans aren't always aware of our enabling.

On that note, there are people who indeed may need help, but still are potentially dangerous. Trying to help people like that - in anything other than an appropriate medical or legal context by a professional - will almost always end badly. Why? Well, dangerous people prey on the kindness of strangers. They may not purposely be doing it, but they do it regardless, and no amount of love is going to change that. Sometimes the best thing you can do is draw firm boundaries to protect yourself emotionally, physically, and financially. It's not your fault they are who they are. People like that feed on others' hope and beliefs, and making the people in their lives believe they must desperately help them, and take total responsibility for them. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are somehow different than everyone else in their lives that has already tried.

My personal and professional experience is that people with severe personality disorders and/or substance abuse problems (they tend to go together) too often fall into this camp.

In a work context (which for many here a band is comparable) one rule of thumb I have is to gauge how people react when approached about their issues. Some defensiveness or frustration is to be expected. But outright belligerence or threat is a major RED flag. People like that need to be removed. Period. No reasoning will help them see the 'error of their ways'.

The other rule of thumb has to do with how they act when booted. Messy people make for messy divorces. If they make a $hitstorm of everything on their way out, burn every bridge, etc..., it's a clear indicator that you did the right thing by sending them packing.

 

[EatS1stBassist]

I work in mental health. Here's my two cents.

No, you really can't help someone who isn't ready or willing to help him or herself. And, yeah, enabling is generally not helping, although we as humans aren't always aware of our enabling.

On that note, there are people who indeed may need help, but still are potentially dangerous. Trying to help people like that - in anything other than an appropriate medical or legal context by a professional - will almost always end badly. Why? Well, dangerous people prey on the kindness of strangers. They may not purposely be doing it, but they do it regardless, and no amount of love is going to change that. Sometimes the best thing you can do is draw firm boundaries to protect yourself emotionally, physically, and financially. It's not your fault they are who they are. People like that feed on others' hope and beliefs, and making the people in their lives believe they must desperately help them, and take total responsibility for them. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are somehow different than everyone else in their lives that has already tried.

My personal and professional experience is that people with severe personality disorders and/or substance abuse problems (they tend to go together) too often fall into this camp.

In a work context (which for many here a band is comparable) one rule of thumb I have is to gauge how people react when approached about their issues. Some defensiveness or frustration is to be expected. But outright belligerence or threat is a major RED flag. People like that need to be removed. Period. No reasoning will help them see the 'error of their ways'.

The other rule of thumb has to do with how they act when booted. Messy people make for messy divorces. If they make a $hitstorm of everything on their way out, burn every bridge, etc..., it's a clear indicator that you did the right thing by sending them packing.

Very clearly put!!