Your Opinion on 8x10's

[georgestrings]

Well I *have* sat down with an 810e to compare it to my '66, and I know the outcome of that test.

That said Im all for the throw down I'll bring the '66, Classic 400, B1500, and something paired with a bridged ProLite 3.0. Just need a witness and someone with a the SVT rig.

ported cab vs sealed cab, I'm not surprised - I would say your '66 vs my PH810 or a Megoliath would be a more realistic test... I will say that I have never been able to push my PH810 very hard at all, due to the massive amount of air it will move - and that there is no way I'll ever need more capability than that...


- georgestrings

 

[Fuzzbass]

I remember years back when the nv610 came out. The big deal was getting a comparison to the orig flatbacks. I recall opinions either split or in favor of the Berg. Plus i think the 610 came out in 05. Heck even if they are equivalent performers, size and weight make the berg a winner all day. For me.

I believe Mark Reccord A/B'd the NV610 with a vintage flatback using a vintage SVT head, and preferred the Berg. Point is, the Berg is right there. I'm also glad to hear that Ampeg's new cabs are recreating the flatback/coffin tone. But I'm with you 100%: the Berg gives me the classic coffin tone, more than enough volume even in stoopid loud situations, but with less bulk and weight. So, the 8x10 (vintage, Heritage, or any other) is no longer on my radar.

No disrespect intended, of course. An Ampeg 8x10 was backline at a multi-band festival I did not too long ago; it sounded great. But I still prefer the NV.

 

[metron]

I believe Mark Reccord A/B'd the NV610 with a vintage flatback using a vintage SVT head, and preferred the Berg. Point is, the Berg is right there. I'm also glad to hear that Ampeg's new cabs are recreating the flatback/coffin tone. But I'm with you 100%: the Berg gives me the classic coffin tone, more than enough volume even in stoopid loud situations, but with less bulk and weight. So, the 8x10 (vintage, Heritage, or any other) is no longer on my radar.

No disrespect intended, of course. An Ampeg 8x10 was backline at a multi-band festival I did not too long ago; it sounded great. But I still prefer the NV.

Yup, thats one of the compares I recall though I thought there were a few people did. I agree though Ampeg set the standard but personally I have a weight threshold. Sure I am a wus but I still use a 100 lb cab. In fact I just got a second!

 

[BawanaRik]

Moving air. It's what life is all about.

 

[Warpeg]

The Ampeg SVT-810E is my favorite cab. After playing gigs for the better part of 20 years and trying-out just about every cab under the sun, I can confidently declare that I have no interest in owning anything but an 810E for stage use. It gives me the exact rock tone that I desire, it's easy to move, it looks good and parts for it are readily available. The Ampeg 810 is a classic, celebrated tradition in bass history....you can't go wrong.

However, it certainly is not for those bassists that need their rigs to be smaller and lighter than their guitarist's combo amp

 

[zachoff]

I love my Ampeg 810. It's an old 400W cab though. Sounds a lot different than the new 800W cabs.

 

[butcher]

It would seem reasonable to determine the tone profile the OP was after as every cab is different including 810s.

I don't think it is about cabs battling it out as much as being able to easily and reliably get the tone we are after out of our gear.

Also, for some of us there is a sense of image that we want our gear to project - hence all the gear threads about things that have nothing to do with sound.

Whether it is an 8x10, a 4x12, a 1515/66, a pair of 4x10s there is something unmistakable about having bass pounding behind your shoulders

So, to the OP - what are your tonal and visual goals? Classic/Vintage or Modern? Tolex or Tweed? or do you just plan to go with the most recommended or what is recommended by those that post the most?

 

[bassboysam]

It would seem reasonable to determine the tone profile the OP was after as every cab is different including 810s.

I don't think it is about cabs battling it out as much as being able to easily and reliably get the tone we are after out of our gear.

Also, for some of us there is a sense of image that we want our gear to project - hence all the gear threads about things that have nothing to do with sound.

Whether it is an 8x10, a 4x12, a 1515/66, a pair of 4x10s there is something unmistakable about having bass pounding behind your shoulders

So, to the OP - what are your tonal and visual goals? Classic/Vintage or Modern? Tolex or Tweed? or do you just plan to go with the most recommended or what is recommended by those that post the most?

i think the OP is long gone.

 

[butcher]

i think the OP is long gone.

... wonder why. Hope he finds what he was looking for, unlike Bono.

 

[kilgoja]

ampeg 8x10

i'd like to try the orange 8x10 too.

 

[iualum]

fEarful owner/fan here. I don't think you're being quite fair to 810's, there. So I'll take a stab at it, maybe help the OP in comparing what ya'll are talking about here.

Give the 810's their due. A lot of folks like them, and depending on what one wants, they can do the job well. They'll fill a room with bass. Not necessarily sub/low bass, but not everyone wants that. Most roll off lows in a range that can be useful... even with cabs that can do lower there are times when a HPF set in that same neighborhood can be a good thing. They usually roll off highs in a place that works pretty well for bass for a lot of players.

They don't disperse like a 2 or three way cab... but as a stage monitor beaming can be dealt with, or even be what is desired. They often have a bump in frequency response right where some might want to have a bump in frequency response.

Yeah, big and heavy. Not a problem for some, plus wheels/handles make them easier to move than smaller/wheel-less cabs in some situations.

In other words... they are what they are. Like anything, they have strong and weak points. When the strong points match up with what you want, and the weak points aren't things that matter to you, and you like the way it sounds... sure. Get an 810 and be happy with it. Those points didn't line up that way for me, I didn't get one, and I ended up happier with something else. Yay! And if I really did prefer the sound of an 810, I probably would have been looking at the Barefaced '69er that Mr Foxen mentioned.

In terms of "moving air" no, a single 15/6 won't whoop a good 810 (don't think I've ever heard anyone say that). A dual 3015 or 3012LF won't either, though they are getting in the ballpark for it... matching or beating some, not others. To be fair, I do my "compare to typical full range 10s" Vd math with an Eminence Legend 810. BFM has said it's pretty darn close to what ships in the Ampeg 810e and higher-end 8x10's nowadays. It had good Vd for a 10, way better than the estimate you give. Here's raw air movement numbers, with an "ballpark equivalent in Legend 810s" figure tacked on to the end:

Eight Legend 810's = 1321.6 cc

Single 3012LF = 494 cc (3x10)
Single 3015 = 505 cc (3x10)
Single 3015LF = 845.9 cc (5x10)

Dual 3012LF = 988 cc (6x10)
Dual 3015 = 1010 cc (6x10)
Dual 3015LF = 1691.8 cc (10x10)

Note that the figures don't take into account any increase in air movement (up to almost double) due to port tuning. (See Barefaced's article on the subject here.) Doesn't account for any mids or tweets, either. Just the simplest hard data available on the woofers doing the "air moving", from a reliable source.

Putting down the paper, I agree with CL400Peavey that my 1212/6 is in the ballpark with some 8x10s. Maybe it loses and an out-and-out peak SPL war, maybe not. But how often does one actually have to push either cab to those limits? Pretty much never. Both can put out plenty of sound for pretty much any occasion. The rest is a matter of taste, preferences, and special needs.

But given that real-world comparison, and the raw Vd data, plus the potential for even more air movement due to good tuning... I think I'd put my money on a '66 smacking an 810e pretty hard.

Only one way to know for sure, though. A duel/faceoff at a GTG somewhere. Who wouldn't love to see that? Maybe a Heritage SVT & 810 vs. a Classic 400 on a '66? And then more power... swap out the tube heads and try it with an SVT-7Pro & Carvin B2000?

Never said lots of guys didn't like them. If fact, I did say what's important is that the player likes whatever box he uses, & if he does, great, whatever it is.

If Legend 810s are what's in the Ampeg 810, if that's correct, the Vd would be almost the number you stated, 1316.4 (4.7mm x .3501m2 x 8, rounded up). Plus, this is a low sensitivity driver, 92.7 dB.

Your mention of tuning, & the accompanying Barefaced link, is also accurate. This point would always favor (& again, as Barefaced mentions, is possible to tremendously favor) any extra-well-designed box, among which a fEARful or Fearless can definitely be counted.

Also, not taking the formidable 6ND410s into account results in a great underestimation of a 1515/66, not from a Vd standpoint (2 of them contribute just 57.2 cc), but from their 102dB SPL. They can hammer out mids more than anything of which I'm aware. How about you?

Next to last, a 1515/66 "smacking" an 810e pretty hard? Yeah. I'd put my money there, too. And. A. Lot. Of. It.

Lastly, an in-person showdown. Yes, in full agreement, would love to hear it.

 

[JimmyM]

Legend B810's were invented by Eminence to have a 10" folks could use as an SVT 810 replacement, but they are not what are loaded into 810e's, either standard or Heritage.

Anyway, all I can say to this "showdown" is "who really gives a rat's ass?" I couldn't care less if there are louder cabs on the market. Already agreed that the 1515/66 would probably be louder. I have never played loud enough to care in my life, and I'm certainly not caring now. So I won't be volunteering my cab for this pointless dick-sizing contest.

 

[Tom Howland]

When I was much younger I wanted one, couldn't afford it. Now that I'm old as dirt and can afford one, I'm not lifting, toting, carrying, wheeling,schlepping, anything that huge or weighs that much for the gigs I do.

Me too Bro, It sucks to get old.

 

[makohund]

Never said lots of guys didn't like them. If fact, I did say what's important is that the player likes whatever box he uses, & if he does, great, whatever it is.

Correct. The "things an 810 can do" was for the OP, not you. I just didn't agree with your Vd calculation for an 810.

If Legend 810s are what's in the Ampeg 810

They're not. But BFM does have (non-disclosable) data on the actual drivers in the 810e, and says the Legend 810 is very close, and useful for valid comparisons.

the Vd would be almost the number you stated, 1316.4 (4.7mm x .3501m2 x 8, rounded up)

Go argue with Eminence's data sheet, not me. They clearly state the Vd as 165.2cc.

Also, not taking the formidable 6ND410s into account results in an great underestimation of a 1515/66, not from a Vd standpoint (2 of them contribute just 57.2 cc), but from their 102dB SPL. They can hammer out mids more than anything of which I'm aware. How about you?

I kinda play through one of them almost every day... I do know what they are, and what they do, thanks. I was talking about pure air movement. The meat of "bass". Well below those mids... yes, they hammer. Up in tone-land, a much more subjective area.

 

[iualum]

Greenboy once said that a 15/6 will move a little more air than a standard 410...pretty sure he estimated that it would move as much as a 510. So that would mean a 1515/66 would move about as much air as a 1010. That to me is not burying the 810 but putting out a little more. So for that reason, I stand behind what I said. Greenboy is a good friend, we've had many a good hour-long conversation over the phone, and I like what he does a lot. But he never exaggerates claims, and quite honestly, his fans who do hurt his business.

But let's assume this "bury an 810" thing is accurate. I have turned up my Heritage SVT-CL/810e all the way and lasted about 5 seconds before I started getting nauseous. There is absolutely no way I could take standing in front of one turned up that loud, and I seriously doubt many people can. So when someone says X cab buries an 810, my question would be, "How many of us are ever in a situation where they need so much air movement it buries an 810?"

That isn't to say fEarful and fEarless cabs aren't a valid choice. They absolutely are. Darn good one, too. But they are a whole different ballgame from the 810, and a lot of us prefer the more traditional bass cabs. 3-way cabs are nothing new...I've seen bass players use them since the 70's and I've played through plenty of them. They do sound really good. I'd still rather have an 810...I know lots of others who would still rather have an 810. Why you 3-way cab fans think we shouldn't prefer the 810, I will never understand.

That's assuming that a "standard" 410 uses relatively high Xmax ferrite drivers, which is unlikely the case in many (likely most) instances. And it isn't only the Vd advantage of the 1515/66, the stellar 6ND410s are items for which any 810 has no reply.

Actually, I've never claimed to be a 3-way fan. Given my "druthers," I prefer a 2-way w/dedicated mid(s). I've also never said anyone shouldn't prefer an 810. What I have said & do say, is "to each their own." All that matters is that each guy likes the box/boxes he uses.

 

[troy mcclure]

They are really big and heavy.

 

[JimmyM]

That's assuming that a "standard" 410 uses relatively high Xmax ferrite drivers, which is unlikely the case in many (likely most) instances. And it isn't only the Vd advantage of the 1515/66, the stellar 6ND410s are items for which any 810 has no reply.

Wonderful...what that means to me is that it will be possible for me to puke about 2 seconds faster with the 6ND410 as opposed to the Ampeg stockers when turned up to a volume I already can't stand to be listening to anyway.

 

[iualum]

Legend B810's were invented by Eminence to have a 10" folks could use as an SVT 810 replacement, but they are not what are loaded into 810e's, either standard or Heritage.

Anyway, all I can say to this "showdown" is "who really gives a rat's ass?" I couldn't care less if there are louder cabs on the market. Already agreed that the 1515/66 would probably be louder. I have never played loud enough to care in my life, and I'm certainly not caring now. So I won't be volunteering my cab for this pointless dick-sizing contest.

So happy you're not among probably the 90% who would have said "could care less" .

 

[JimmyM]

So happy you're not among probably the 90% who would have said "could care less" .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9E9n6GHC8

 

[iualum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9E9n6GHC8