Does it make a difference if I run my B3 through the power amp in, or the effects return on my svt3 pro?? The only difference I can tell is the master volume dosent work with power amp in, and does with effects return. Is it preferance?
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Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2
- Thread starter David Wilson
- Start date
Many thanks Charlie! And yeah, you're right, I also believe Zoom will do what you said. However, when is actually my question. Since bass devices are much less of a business than guitar ones, it might well be that Zoom has done it for bass for this quarter at least and the good things we are hoping for call for lots of patience, which I am a bit lacking. I need a solution not too long from now. Yes, I can hold my breath for a short while longer, but not for too long anymore. I wanna and need to be ready for our next tour, a few weeks but not much more is all what I have left.
So, what's your guess? Soon or is it something rather for next year?
P.S: Should we ever get together, I'd love to invite you for a beer. But it is Swiss, not Belgium you would need to drink, though.
In your case I would go effects return, main difference not being big except for the volume control.
Cheers,
It is actually nice to have a physical volume knob at one's fingertips, so for that reason I would perhaps use the EFFECT RETURN on the 3 PRO over the POWER AMP IN.
Interesting note on the 3 PRO: Even when using the POWER AMP IN, Ampeg's TUBE GAIN knob/circuit is still active as part of the signal chain.
Cheers!
Many thanks Charlie! And yeah, you're right, I also believe Zoom will do what you said. However, when is actually my question. Since bass devices are much less of a business than guitar ones, it might well be that Zoom has done it for bass for this quarter at least and the good things we are hoping for call for lots of patience, which I am a bit lacking. I need a solution not too long from now. Yes, I can hold my breath for a short while longer, but not for too long anymore. I wanna and need to be ready for our next tour, a few weeks but not much more is all what I have left.
So, what's your guess? Soon or is it something rather for next year?
P.S: Should we ever get together, I'd love to invite you for a beer. But it is Swiss, not Belgium you would need to drink, though.
My guess is that Zoom will have some solution released/announced by the second half of 2014.
If pressed to purchase another B3 or MS-60B now to mate with an existing B3, I would opt for the MS-60B as to provide alternative flexibility -- additionally, the cost savings there could be used for beer when I visit Switzerland!
Cheers!
If you visit switzerland you'll not be too far from me. I can keep you a beer if you want 
Today I finally could try on rehearsal the Zoom B3 on my Yamaha S112IV powered by a EMX640 (it's our vocal PA), the speaker put on the floor with a slight tilt. The SVT sim with the speaker sim full engaged sounded very powerfull !!
I liked it a lot.
I didn't test it at full volume since I didn't know if this speaker would be strong enough, but it I guess it's sufficient for a lot of uses.
And with my bg250, I found a quite interesting setting in which I use a mix of the B3 and the bg250 :
- on the B3 : the AcBsPre (yes, again) for some low mids boost with the sweeping low mids (I can adjust the low end to the room), a slight boost of the mids (they are set around 1.5 kHz) for clarity, and the HPF to taste
- on the bg250 : the tubedrive for some grit and the mids reduced a bit if I feel the sound too honky
The result is very interesting with a flexible tone.
It gives a lot of density to the bg250 but without going in the mud zone.
And like that I have 2 free spots available for effects on the B3 in my main tone patch !!
So, today I don't know which configuration I prefer between the full range speaker and my bg250 when plugged to the B3... They doesn't sound exactly the same but can produce very efficient tones !!
I'd like to try a 15" powered speaker. I'd feel more comfortable to push the volume.
Today I finally could try on rehearsal the Zoom B3 on my Yamaha S112IV powered by a EMX640 (it's our vocal PA), the speaker put on the floor with a slight tilt. The SVT sim with the speaker sim full engaged sounded very powerfull !!
I liked it a lot.
I didn't test it at full volume since I didn't know if this speaker would be strong enough, but it I guess it's sufficient for a lot of uses.
And with my bg250, I found a quite interesting setting in which I use a mix of the B3 and the bg250 :
- on the B3 : the AcBsPre (yes, again
) for some low mids boost with the sweeping low mids (I can adjust the low end to the room), a slight boost of the mids (they are set around 1.5 kHz) for clarity, and the HPF to taste- on the bg250 : the tubedrive for some grit and the mids reduced a bit if I feel the sound too honky
The result is very interesting with a flexible tone.
It gives a lot of density to the bg250 but without going in the mud zone.
And like that I have 2 free spots available for effects on the B3 in my main tone patch !!
So, today I don't know which configuration I prefer between the full range speaker and my bg250 when plugged to the B3... They doesn't sound exactly the same but can produce very efficient tones !!
I'd like to try a 15" powered speaker. I'd feel more comfortable to push the volume.
If you visit switzerland you'll not be too far from me. I can keep you a beer if you want
Merci, ticol07, but when in France I shall Vin Rouge!
Cheers!
The new Invalid Link Removed could quite possibly be my next small/medium gig rig!
(Pending audition)
YouTube:
(Pending audition)
YouTube:
My guess is that Zoom will have some solution released/announced by the second half of 2014.
If pressed to purchase another B3 or MS-60B now to mate with an existing B3, I would opt for the MS-60B as to provide alternative flexibility -- additionally, the cost savings there could be used for beer when I visit Switzerland!
Cheers!
Many, many thanks Charlie to share your thoughts here with me.
A Swiss beer for sure!
Cheers,
Andreas flf
The following text is found in the operation manual PDF for the new B1on/B1Xon:
We have included realistic amplifier modeling sounds from our B3. We have recreated the low-end thickness, pitch clarity and loudness, which are elements that contribute to a natural playing feel, with incredible accuracy. The models range from famous historical amps to recent popular ones and cover a great variety of bass sounds.
In other words, for less than half the cost of the B3, one can gain access to all of the B3's glorious amp/cab models, plus trump the B3 with support for up to 5 simultaneous effects!
^^^
With the subsequent introductions of both the MS-60B and the B1on/B1Xon, the B3 is now the most power deprived, and most expensive, ZFX-IV DSP bass device in Zoom's line!
Firmware update, PLEASE!
With the subsequent introductions of both the MS-60B and the B1on/B1Xon, the B3 is now the most power deprived, and most expensive, ZFX-IV DSP bass device in Zoom's line!
Firmware update, PLEASE!
It is still the only one with XLR out and the ability to switch effects on and off within a patch. So it's not a straightforward 'B3 is underpowered and overpriced' situation.
But yes, firmware update please!
But yes, firmware update please!
And the only one with computer software via USB to edit/modify patches. That is a huuuuuge thing for me...
B3 has 99 effects, B1on has 75, B1Xon adds 5 more pedal-oriented effects for a total of 80. Has anyone determined yet which ones were left out compared to the B3? It appears that the 12 amp models
are the same.
The noise floor on the B1on/B1Xon is listed as -97dBm, and -100dBm on the B3. When it gets that low, will the 3dB difference be audible (at least in recording, if not live performance)?
Marcus
are the same.
The noise floor on the B1on/B1Xon is listed as -97dBm, and -100dBm on the B3. When it gets that low, will the 3dB difference be audible (at least in recording, if not live performance)?
Marcus
IMHO, the 3dB difference should be negligible, even under recording scrutiny.
Another interesting observation:
The B1on/B1Xon carries over the B3's both TOTAL and GLOBAL "LEVEL" parameters that went by the wayside in the MS-60B, but did not carry over the B3's TOTAL menu's "BAL" parameter.
The B1on/B1Xon carries over the B3's both TOTAL and GLOBAL "LEVEL" parameters that went by the wayside in the MS-60B, but did not carry over the B3's TOTAL menu's "BAL" parameter.
B3 effects on left are missing from the B1on/B1Xon list (I've listed B1 series effects on the right if they seemed new or updated):
NOTE: although some references list 75 effects for the B1on, and 80 for the B1Xon, those numbers include the 12 amp models. The B3's 99 effects do NOT include the amp models. So for comparison, the numbers should probably be listed as B3 (99), B1on (63), B1Xon (68).
It is a bit tricky to determine which of the (99) B3 effects find their equivalents in the (63) B1on / (68) (B1Xon effects, since some names have changed although their functions appear to be similar.
The list below is an attempt to show the differences between the effects tables shown on the Zoom website, allowing for name changes and occasional changes in position within the listed groups. Also note that the separate B3 "Delay" and "Reverb" groups have been combined into a single "Delay/Reverb" group for the B1 series, and the B3 "SFX/Synth" group is now simply titled "SFX" for the B1.
Dynamics (8/7)
==============
DualComp
Filter/EQ (14/10)
==============
CombFLTR
Z Tron
Step
RndmFLTR
Drive (9/5)
==============
T Scream
Squeak
FuzzSmile
GreatMuff
Preamps (6/6)
==============
(seem identical)
Modulation (22/14)
==============
4-Phaser &
8-Phaser .................... both replaced by single effect labeled "Phaser"
WarpPhase
VintageCE
StereoCho
VinFLNGR
DynaFLNGR
.......................... new: CoronaTri
Flanger .................... > BassRanger (still modeled on ADA flanger, but adds a wet/dry balance parameter)
H.P.S
BendCho
RingMod
SFX/Synth (10/7)
==============
V-Syn
4VoiceSyn
Z-Organ
Delay (12) & Reverb (8) vs. Delay/Reverb (14)
==================================
Delay (5000 ms) ........ > Delay (4000 ms)
TapeEcho
.......................... new: StompDly
ModDelay ................. > ModDelay2 (can adjust depth)
AnalogDly (5000 ms)
ReverseDL (2500 ms)... > ReverseDL (2000 ms)
MultiTapD
DynaDelay
PitchDly
PhaseDly
TrgHldDly
HD Reverb ................ > HD Hall
Tiled Room
Spring ...................... > Plate
Arena
Air
.......................... new: ModReverb
.......................... new: SlapBack
.......................... new: ParticleR
All 5 TwinFX are absent from the new pedals.
==================================
Comp+Dist
Oct+Dist
Awah+Dist
Comp+AWah
PH+Dist
All 5 PedalFX are only available for B1Xon
==============================
They appear to be renamed, but otherwise the same.
So it's not a simple matter of being able to replace a B3 with a B1Xon. For some, there are effects which may be desired from the B3 (such as the Fuzz Smile, Great Muff, or the 4- or 8-Phaser) which are absent from the B1 series, while others may want the additional controls or revised/upgraded versions found on the newer units. The absence of TwinFx is probably a result of the 5 vs 3 slots available. The longer delay times listed for the B3 may be shortened in later firmware versions, but at least for earlier versions of the B3 firmware, they may provide a slight edge for some users.
To the best of my ability, I've cross-checked descriptions to see if some of the changed names masked similar or identical effects. Since I don't own any of these pedals, I was limited to the documentation provided by Zoom's website. Any errors in the above comparison are my own.
The tables used to create the list can be found at Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed
Marcus
NOTE: although some references list 75 effects for the B1on, and 80 for the B1Xon, those numbers include the 12 amp models. The B3's 99 effects do NOT include the amp models. So for comparison, the numbers should probably be listed as B3 (99), B1on (63), B1Xon (68).
It is a bit tricky to determine which of the (99) B3 effects find their equivalents in the (63) B1on / (68) (B1Xon effects, since some names have changed although their functions appear to be similar.
The list below is an attempt to show the differences between the effects tables shown on the Zoom website, allowing for name changes and occasional changes in position within the listed groups. Also note that the separate B3 "Delay" and "Reverb" groups have been combined into a single "Delay/Reverb" group for the B1 series, and the B3 "SFX/Synth" group is now simply titled "SFX" for the B1.
Dynamics (8/7)
==============
DualComp
Filter/EQ (14/10)
==============
CombFLTR
Z Tron
Step
RndmFLTR
Drive (9/5)
==============
T Scream
Squeak
FuzzSmile
GreatMuff
Preamps (6/6)
==============
(seem identical)
Modulation (22/14)
==============
4-Phaser &
8-Phaser .................... both replaced by single effect labeled "Phaser"
WarpPhase
VintageCE
StereoCho
VinFLNGR
DynaFLNGR
.......................... new: CoronaTri
Flanger .................... > BassRanger (still modeled on ADA flanger, but adds a wet/dry balance parameter)
H.P.S
BendCho
RingMod
SFX/Synth (10/7)
==============
V-Syn
4VoiceSyn
Z-Organ
Delay (12) & Reverb (8) vs. Delay/Reverb (14)
==================================
Delay (5000 ms) ........ > Delay (4000 ms)
TapeEcho
.......................... new: StompDly
ModDelay ................. > ModDelay2 (can adjust depth)
AnalogDly (5000 ms)
ReverseDL (2500 ms)... > ReverseDL (2000 ms)
MultiTapD
DynaDelay
PitchDly
PhaseDly
TrgHldDly
HD Reverb ................ > HD Hall
Tiled Room
Spring ...................... > Plate
Arena
Air
.......................... new: ModReverb
.......................... new: SlapBack
.......................... new: ParticleR
All 5 TwinFX are absent from the new pedals.
==================================
Comp+Dist
Oct+Dist
Awah+Dist
Comp+AWah
PH+Dist
All 5 PedalFX are only available for B1Xon
==============================
They appear to be renamed, but otherwise the same.
So it's not a simple matter of being able to replace a B3 with a B1Xon. For some, there are effects which may be desired from the B3 (such as the Fuzz Smile, Great Muff, or the 4- or 8-Phaser) which are absent from the B1 series, while others may want the additional controls or revised/upgraded versions found on the newer units. The absence of TwinFx is probably a result of the 5 vs 3 slots available. The longer delay times listed for the B3 may be shortened in later firmware versions, but at least for earlier versions of the B3 firmware, they may provide a slight edge for some users.
To the best of my ability, I've cross-checked descriptions to see if some of the changed names masked similar or identical effects. Since I don't own any of these pedals, I was limited to the documentation provided by Zoom's website. Any errors in the above comparison are my own.
The tables used to create the list can be found at Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed
Marcus
