Making me think that the inability of the 60B+ to display the patch we're on for more than a couple of seconds in any mode vs being standard display on the B1-4 and also what the MS-60B does in memory mode, is an annoying software glitch that Zoom should fix with a software update? I'll raise it with them via their website: Contact - if other Zoom users on TB would like do the same we might be able to get them to act on it sooner rather than later?
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Zoom MS-60B+ (a compact B2-Four?)
- Thread starter Al Krow
- Start date
It’s also the standard for the B2 Four, which is basically the same pedal.
I have two questions regarding the Zoom MS-60+
I play a Fodera Emperor 5 Standard. I’ve noticed that some of the MS-60+ effects don’t ‘play nice’ with this bass such as the octavers, pitch shifters and the fuzzes. As I write this, it just occurred to me that I tried the MS-60+ with my bass in active mode only. Didn’t think to switch to passive. I’ll give that a shot tomorrow. Any ideas as to how to approach these troubled effects? BTW, I made sure only one string was vibrating at a time, and muted the other strings so there were no sympathetic vibrations going on.
I’ve noticed that the effects are not clearly labeled on the screen, at least from a distance, and some of the colors don’t help at all. How are you guys knowing what effect(s) you’re using.
Can someone share some insights as to how you use this pedal on an actual gig (efficiently going from one effect to another, etc.)?
I play a Fodera Emperor 5 Standard. I’ve noticed that some of the MS-60+ effects don’t ‘play nice’ with this bass such as the octavers, pitch shifters and the fuzzes. As I write this, it just occurred to me that I tried the MS-60+ with my bass in active mode only. Didn’t think to switch to passive. I’ll give that a shot tomorrow. Any ideas as to how to approach these troubled effects? BTW, I made sure only one string was vibrating at a time, and muted the other strings so there were no sympathetic vibrations going on.
I’ve noticed that the effects are not clearly labeled on the screen, at least from a distance, and some of the colors don’t help at all. How are you guys knowing what effect(s) you’re using.
Can someone share some insights as to how you use this pedal on an actual gig (efficiently going from one effect to another, etc.)?
Are you changing mid-song, or between songs?
If "between songs" then I'd sit the MS60B+ on my amp and change patches by hand, or with a bluetooth connected iPad.
If "mid-song", then from my perspective, the MS-60B+ doesn't have enough switches to easily facilitate changing tones while playing. The B2 Four or B1 Four are better for that because of the slightly bigger form factor and more switches.
I'll be interested though to hear whether a MS60B+ owners disagrees with my assessment.
I've A/B'd a few more patches on the 60B+ that I had previously set up on my B1-4. All settings identical on both.
- the EQ 'preamp' patches do have a better more 'open' less muffled feel to them on the 60B+
- the Z synth was pretty much identical
- the unexpected shock for me was a RAT style drive patch with boosted low end using the Squeak and Ampeg SVT sims + GEQ on both. The 60B+ patch was much thinner and nowhere near as good as the same patch on the B1-4
Be interested if anyone finds the same with the latter and/or other drive patches?
Given the significantly easier patch editing on the B1-4 via my PC, this is making me think hard about whether to bother holding on to the 60B+
- the EQ 'preamp' patches do have a better more 'open' less muffled feel to them on the 60B+
- the Z synth was pretty much identical
- the unexpected shock for me was a RAT style drive patch with boosted low end using the Squeak and Ampeg SVT sims + GEQ on both. The 60B+ patch was much thinner and nowhere near as good as the same patch on the B1-4
Be interested if anyone finds the same with the latter and/or other drive patches?
Given the significantly easier patch editing on the B1-4 via my PC, this is making me think hard about whether to bother holding on to the 60B+
I don't. Well, obviously do what my preset is made of, but not in that manner.
I'm a preset kind of guy. I know it goes against the way Zoom wants us to use this pedal, but there you have it. Have you tried adjusting the contrast and brightness?
Honestly, it depends entirely how you use it but @Appogee has the gest of it assuming it's the only pedal you have on your board.
If you use it as a pedalboard, it's not that complicated. The effect switch buttons are on the bottom, so it's just a matter of Tap(left of right) N Stomp. The different effect colours should be an indication what type of effect you're about to turn on or off. Failing that, you're going to have to remember what's on your 'board' and where it is. Not too bad because it's only 6 effects max and odds are that the effects you want to turn on or off are the ones last in the chain. That's how (I think) Zoom intends us to use it. So far so good.
If you use presets between songs, things get a bit more annoying (for me) because the preset buttons are on top and not easy to reach (IMO and with a size 11). I'm sure that with practice people will learn to use it like that, but Zoom clearly has the intention for us to use it as a pedalboard. Doing it by hand is of course easy enough and as @Appogee says, I'd put mine on top of my amp or at least within arm's reach if that's how I'd use it. Also, @Zoot H Rollo shows a nice and rather unique setup for it a few pages back in this thread. If I wanted to use the 60B+ stand-alone (or with perhaps 1 or 2 extra pedals) and in preset mode, I'd seriously consider using something like that instead of getting a floorboard.
Changing presets mid-song is similar to the above, but there's also a preselect feature (off by default) that allows you to 'prepare' a preset before it's activated. What you'd do is start your current preset, then move to the next preset, but it'll only be activated once you stomp on the switch. It's an extra tap left/right before the song, but it can be done. Once. You can't program the 60B+ to switch between a few presets like you could on the old model ( loved that feature and Zoom really missed the boat by leaving it out of this one IMO) so going back requires doing the same thing. I haven't tried this live nor will l, but it seems an inefficient way of doing things mid song unless you only need 1 change.
Perhaps midi could help making switching between presets/effects easier but I'm inclined to agree with @Appogee and in this scenario (or if you need more changes than just 1) would suggest getting a B2Four instead or the B6 if you want more switches.
Midi probably would and - assuming it’s compatible (@Johno Dunn can confirm?) - the M-vave/Cuvave Chocolate is a dirt cheap controller. It works with the original, hopefully it works for the plus.
I think that will only let you select patches, not toggle effects within a patch. That would be roughly the same as the default behavior of the buttons on the B2 Four.
I have not, but it's worth a try. I'll see if I can play around with it today.
Is this what you are referring to?
https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/20240605_144148-jpg.5472608/
Attachments
The MS-60B+ User Manual states, "The MS-60B+ supports program changes by USB MIDI, and the channel used for receiving them can be set."
Ok, so for this pedal, what constitutes a program? Searching the user manual, I find only two instances of the word "program."
1. Page 60 detailing how to set the MIDI channel number used to receive MIDI data (where the above quote comes from).
2. Page 70 showing the MIDI implementation chart.
Neither of those explain what is meant by the word "program."
Interestingly, the title of page 3 of the manual is "Terms used in this manual." It lists 6 words/terms, none of which is the word "program."
If it is just a matter of EQ, can't you just boost the low end more to compensate?
On the Fractal forum, when they release new firmware that improves an amp or other process, users mention having to change settings (often drive or EQ) to compensate for the changes. This is probably similar. With the B2 Four, I found their factory settings on the amps were pretty boomy; perhaps they tweaked some model a bit.
OFF
- Press to open the MENU Screen.
- Turn to select “PRESELECT” and press
.
This opens the PRESELECT Screen.
- Turn to switch it ON/OFF.
Setting Explanation ON This turns on the PRESELECT function. OFF This turns off the PRESELECT function. - Press .
This confirms the setting. - Press .
This reopens the Home Screen.
Selecting patch memories when PRESELECT is ON
- Use and
on the Home Screen to show the next patch memory to select.
Example: Selecting patch memory 008 while performing with 001
The On/Off indicator will blink.
- Press to confirm the selection.
An effect in the selected patch memory will be shown.
So, when you set it up like this, you can scroll through the patches while remaining on the patch you are on. When you scroll, the name of the patches you are scrolling remain on till you engage the next patch, which ever that might be. Seems like good work around.
DMC has confirmed that their units will indeed work with the MS+ series. This leads me to believe that the MVave Chocolate will as well. I do not currently own one, so I can’t confirm, but I will be ordering one ASAP. I had one with the OG 70CDR, and it really opened up what the 70 was capable of in a live setting. You have an insane amount of presets (patches, programs, etc) accessible at your feet. And it’s inexpensive!
Indeed! I used mine with my NUX MLD and it allowed all sorts of stuff on the fly that otherwise required hooking it up to a computer.
And for $30, you just can’t beat it.
What is Program Change?
We devoted the previous article to the Control Change MIDI message.
beatbars.com
This is almost certainly referring to the patch number.
This sounds very promising to me, especially the part about "opened up what the 70 was capable of in a live setting."
What is Program Change?
We devoted the previous article to the Control Change MIDI message.
This is almost certainly referring to the patch number.
Great, thanks for the link.
From that article it appears that Zoom is indeed referring to the patch number.
Here's a quote from that article, "This message is used to change the instrument / patch / sound, or the program — you will find different names which mean the same thing."
So it looks like the M-Vave Chocolate would be helpful on a gig.
That sounds like a neat work around? Does it apply for all subsequent patches or only for the one you have set it up on until you scroll onto the next patch?OFF
- Press
to open the MENU Screen.
- Turn
to select “PRESELECT” and press.
This opens the PRESELECT Screen.
- Turn
to switch it ON/OFF.
Setting Explanation ON This turns on the PRESELECT function. OFF This turns off the PRESELECT function. - Press
.
This confirms the setting.- Press
.
This reopens the Home Screen.
Selecting patch memories when PRESELECT is ON
- Use
andon the Home Screen to show the next patch memory to select.
Example: Selecting patch memory 008 while performing with 001
The On/Off indicator will blink.
- Press
to confirm the selection.
An effect in the selected patch memory will be shown.
So, when you set it up like this, you can scroll through the patches while remaining on the patch you are on. When you scroll, the name of the patches you are scrolling remain on till you engage the next patch, which ever that might be. Seems like good work around.
DMC has confirmed that their units will indeed work with the MS+ series. This leads me to believe that the MVave Chocolate will as well. I do not currently own one, so I can’t confirm, but I will be ordering one ASAP. I had one with the OG 70CDR, and it really opened up what the 70 was capable of in a live setting. You have an insane amount of presets (patches, programs, etc) accessible at your feet. And it’s inexpensive!
I prefer the buttons and Dials on the Tech 21 pedals..That's it...I love the zoom stuff...It's purely esthetic..in terms of touch..and dialing in, especially on
gigs...
OK, my thoughts after comparing the MS and MS+ for a few hours last night:
I've owned and loved the original MS60B for years, occasionally using it for chorus, flanger, or fuzz when a song needed one of those. I never used the amp models, comps, or any pitch shifting effects as the quality was not anywhere near what I would use during a live performance. Overall it was fine for what little I needed it, and it was cheap. I also owned the B6 for a while and loved it. I just couldn't deal with how big it was (insert Michael Scott quote).
Compared to the original MS the MS+ is an upgrade in sound quality, noise floor, and overall performance.
When bypassed there is no "tone suck" that I can detect. The MS60 slightly degrades the signal when in bypass mode.
The preamps are great and worth the price by themselves. The Clear Driver and 1073 are especially fantastic.
The compressors are nice and definitely usable. Huge improvement over the old MS.
The navigation buttons are great... when using your hands. I would not intend on using them on stage with your feet. Too small, too awkwardly placed. The original had a mode where you could scroll saved presets with the main button. I loved this feature. It's unfortunately not on the new model.
The modulation/filters are fine, not a huge leap but they are improved.
The ODs, distortions are also just fine. This will not replace my dedicated pedals for OD/distortion.
The pitch shifting/octave is improved, but still not very usable IMO.
The synth models are not great, but they were awful in the old version.
The delays and reverbs sound more natural. Less digital. An improvement for sure.
Amp models are nice, but I really only worked with the SVT and B15. Cab sims sound best at about 60-70% blended in IMO. Disappointed that they don't offer a GK model any more.
Not a fan of the colored screens or the fact that it only briefly shows the name of each patch when scrolling. Backwards move IMO.
Overall the new MS+ is a winner and a tremendous deal at $140. You could easily program a killer tone and take just 1 pedal to a gig or rehearsal. If you want to be able to scroll patches or turn on/off effects within a patch I would definitely use the B2 Four or B6 instead. In fact, I've just ordered a B2 Four, I will compare it with the MS+ and decide which to keep.
I've owned and loved the original MS60B for years, occasionally using it for chorus, flanger, or fuzz when a song needed one of those. I never used the amp models, comps, or any pitch shifting effects as the quality was not anywhere near what I would use during a live performance. Overall it was fine for what little I needed it, and it was cheap. I also owned the B6 for a while and loved it. I just couldn't deal with how big it was (insert Michael Scott quote).
Compared to the original MS the MS+ is an upgrade in sound quality, noise floor, and overall performance.
When bypassed there is no "tone suck" that I can detect. The MS60 slightly degrades the signal when in bypass mode.
The preamps are great and worth the price by themselves. The Clear Driver and 1073 are especially fantastic.
The compressors are nice and definitely usable. Huge improvement over the old MS.
The navigation buttons are great... when using your hands. I would not intend on using them on stage with your feet. Too small, too awkwardly placed. The original had a mode where you could scroll saved presets with the main button. I loved this feature. It's unfortunately not on the new model.
The modulation/filters are fine, not a huge leap but they are improved.
The ODs, distortions are also just fine. This will not replace my dedicated pedals for OD/distortion.
The pitch shifting/octave is improved, but still not very usable IMO.
The synth models are not great, but they were awful in the old version.
The delays and reverbs sound more natural. Less digital. An improvement for sure.
Amp models are nice, but I really only worked with the SVT and B15. Cab sims sound best at about 60-70% blended in IMO. Disappointed that they don't offer a GK model any more.
Not a fan of the colored screens or the fact that it only briefly shows the name of each patch when scrolling. Backwards move IMO.
Overall the new MS+ is a winner and a tremendous deal at $140. You could easily program a killer tone and take just 1 pedal to a gig or rehearsal. If you want to be able to scroll patches or turn on/off effects within a patch I would definitely use the B2 Four or B6 instead. In fact, I've just ordered a B2 Four, I will compare it with the MS+ and decide which to keep.
