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$1,000 Squier...A different approach to Squier guitars

#41
At $1000 I would expect my Squier jaguar to have the same electronics as the Japanese Fender's. All the fancy switches and stuff. And a better bridge. My $400 Ibanez has a better bridge than any Fender I've seen. And a hard case. And a MIA stamp on the back so I can point to it regularly.
 
#42
I think your premise is interesting, but wrong. At least for me.For me the low price is it's biggest selling point. Sure, I'd like some better pots, maybe a bodywood that's a bit more durable than basswood, but that's not why I bought my squier standard jazz. I bought it because it felt good to play and - because - it was cheap. I can mistreat this instrument, take it to dive bars, just put it in a corner somewhere without fearing it will tip over, and without overly babying it to prevent scratches and dings like I would with a 1k instrument. The low price frees me up to play more expressively, and mod it if I want to. It makes the threshold lower to make it truly mine.

This is of course also tied to my level of dispodable income. A thousand euro's (or even dollars! :D) is a lot of noney for me. If I was richer, maybe a 1k instrument could take the place a 200 euro instrument takes now. But not atm.
 
#44
I'll bite, and discuss it theoretically, although "good enough to great for the money" is their strongest real world selling point.

I would expect better materials and tolerances in tuners and bridges. And better consistency.

The tuners on both my basses are not very well fit where the ear joins the rest, causing rattles. The gears are solid enough, they hold tune, and nothing carries over the pickups, but I would expect better fit for $1000.

Bridges are not always great. My P bass bridge is fairly solid, but my Jazz bass has a lot of slack between the saddles, that cause the strings to move around and go in and out of alignment with the bottom of the neck and pickups. Nice, well fit steel bridges, with good saddles would be a mandatory.

On the Affinities, particularly, better pots and caps. With single coils, either Jazz or Precision, the 500k mini pots are a real weak point, IMO. I always found them to be noisy, have too much high end vs Fenders standard of full size, 250k pots, and be of limited use. Even if keeping the stock pickups, replacing the rest with Fender grade stuff has always made a huge difference, IME.

Better neck pocket dimension. Seems too deep on both mine. Maybe it's because they are older, or just my luck with these ones, as the newer ones I have tried don't seem so bad, right off the wall. But I had to shim both necks to raise them up a bit, as they seem too low in relation to the bridge. Getting low action dropped the bridge saddles so low the break angle was insufficient. Good breaks angles raised the action way too high.

It better come with a nice case.

So, to me, a $1000 Squier would have to be pretty much the equal of a comparable Fender, in just about every area.

Cheap Squiers work for me, precisely because of their low price. And because of that price, I accept that I will I have to do certain things to them where they are the most weak, and I enjoy doing it anyway.

It may still not be a huge amount of money, as instruments go, but for $1000, I would very much expect NOT to have to do those things.
 
#45
I have a $1000.00 Squire! (re-badged as a Fender)

I bought a VM Jaguar and put $750+ in parts into it! All new electronics, bridge, PUs, tuners, even refinished the neck..etc. Gutted it basically because I like the body style but not the Fender Jaguar configuration...

The QUALITY differences between a Squire and a typical $1000 bass: Necks are not as smooth and lack a lot of "feel" in the finish, the bridge, the tuners, the electronic components are noticeably cheaper...The tort guard looks cheap IMO

The less noticeable differences: Surprisingly the PU's weren't noticeably bad IMO... I still replaced them though. The nut was not a huge problem either. The body feels too lightweight from what I would expect from a $1000 bass.

So for $1000 I ended up with a $1000 bass... a bunch of leftover cheap parts and some usable PUs for a future project.

There is a difference other than the price tag.
 
#46
The two brands have some overlap, you can find a good Squier and a Bad Fender. I would say you wouldn't find a great Squier like you would a extra special Fender. You will be more likely to get a lemon with a Squier. If you know how to judge an instrument and take the time you can find a Squier that will be gig-able, but it helps if you have some basic skills in working on an instrument.

I can go by my own experiences only. The only bass I have and have ever really played for more than a few minutes is a Squier Affinity that was given to me (free). It was roughly 8 years old when I got it and needed some work. The neck was very bowed, I've straightened it out some but it still needs periodic adjustment, probably more than normal. The neck isn't that great but it is playable to me at least.

I remember when my friend initially bought it for his daughter that the input jack fell apart on the first day and he went back to the store to have them fix it. The input jack comes loose and needs constant attention, if you tighten it to much you can't plug it in and get any sound. It needs a better jack with a locking nut. I should just go get one today hehe.

One of the pickup connections to the pot had a bad solder joint, the wire was loose in it's socket and would cut in and out if I adjusted the volume or tone. I went in and fixed up the solder joints and it hasn't been a problem since.

So in answer to the $1000 question, no the Squier is not worth that. You shouldn't have a bowed neck, questionable jacks, and bad solder joints on any instrument, much less on an expensive one. The fretwork isn't that good either. Most beginners wouldn't have known how to setup and fix this bass, my many years of tinkering on guitars helped me make it usable. So now it sounds and plays pretty good, but I know it will always need more adjustments than a high quality bass. Bottom line is that it was free and I enjoy playing it though.
 
#47
LAST_C said:
I've always thought that the pricing for a Fender MIA bass, or a Gibson MIA bass has to do with the logo big time. You pay $500 or $600 for the bass, the rest goes to the logo. They overcharge for the logo and bassist are more than willing to pay for it. The difference between A MIA and a MIM is the frontier between Mexico and US, and some components. IMO that is.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of marketing: where the brand itself has become a product all by itself. And that's the world we live in, otherwise you wouldn't have overpriced brands like Ermenegildo Zegna, Rolex, Ferrari, etc...

Fender, well, is not on that level of luxury (not the Standards anyway)... but you get my point. Say Fender is like Nike, Adidas, Sony, Microsoft, and all othr brands that are still kinda "affordable" but still overpriced for what they are. Some say it is due to the quality, but Guess jeans are expensive and they disintegrate after a few washes.

Regarding the OP: Nope, I wouldn't by a $1,000 Squier unless I was literally blown away by it. And it would certainly be limited only to the CV and VM series, and even those feel like $300-400 basses, not $1,000.
 
#48
I'll play.

OP, you have stated, both in this thread and a previous one, that a Squier VM Jag SS goes for the equivalent of about $300 in your part of the world. Your theoretical question here becomes a whole lot less theoretical and a whole lot more practical (read "valid" to many people) if the $1000 changes to $300.

If you buy one, you're not going to spend $1000. But you will spend $300. So why not ask US buyers what they'd expect / be disappointed in / want to change if the bass cost $300?

Just a thought.
 
#49
lowvoice said:
I've only been on the boards for a couple of weeks, and its already plain to see that Squier are a pretty well-loved brand around here. But whenever people discuss the brand's pros and cons, answers always come in the context of cost. If they are truly as good as some say, let’s forget what they actually cost, and compare them on an even keel to other higher-priced instruments.

So for the sake of discussion, let’s pretend that all Squier guitars cost $1,000 and are kept stock.

If your stock Squier cost you $1,000, what about it would make you happy, what would you find dissapointing?



For the sake of context, let me make it clear that this is not a bash squier thread, so please keep all useless negative comments away. I myself was pleasantly shocked recently when I tried a bunch of Squiers that seemed to be better than Mexican (and indeed Japanese) Fenders. But what I’d like to know is how long do they last compared to higher end guitars, what about tuning stability, or electronics, etc etc
Click to expand...


My expectations are much higher for that price so I'd say all of the materials would be a disappointment if I were paying that amt for basswood; the pickups have highs, unclear lows, and poor mids; inconsistent paint jobs & clear coat; gaps in the neck pocket; unevenly cut nuts; sharp frets; mediocre pots. All from my experience w Squiers but not all at once--over a few years w several guitars. How's that.
But for $100-300 you can find one that's fun to play & modify it all you want.
 
#50
SquierJazz72 said:
I'll bite, and discuss it theoretically, although "good enough to great for the money" is their strongest real world selling point.

I would expect better materials and tolerances in tuners and bridges. And better consistency.

The tuners on both my basses are not very well fit where the ear joins the rest, causing rattles. The gears are solid enough, they hold tune, and nothing carries over the pickups, but I would expect better fit for $1000.

Bridges are not always great. My P bass bridge is fairly solid, but my Jazz bass has a lot of slack between the saddles, that cause the strings to move around and go in and out of alignment with the bottom of the neck and pickups. Nice, well fit steel bridges, with good saddles would be a mandatory.

On the Affinities, particularly, better pots and caps. With single coils, either Jazz or Precision, the 500k mini pots are a real weak point, IMO. I always found them to be noisy, have too much high end vs Fenders standard of full size, 250k pots, and be of limited use. Even if keeping the stock pickups, replacing the rest with Fender grade stuff has always made a huge difference, IME.

Better neck pocket dimension. Seems too deep on both mine. Maybe it's because they are older, or just my luck with these ones, as the newer ones I have tried don't seem so bad, right off the wall. But I had to shim both necks to raise them up a bit, as they seem too low in relation to the bridge. Getting low action dropped the bridge saddles so low the break angle was insufficient. Good breaks angles raised the action way too high.

It better come with a nice case.

So, to me, a $1000 Squier would have to be pretty much the equal of a comparable Fender, in just about every area.

Cheap Squiers work for me, precisely because of their low price. And because of that price, I accept that I will I have to do certain things to them where they are the most weak, and I enjoy doing it anyway.

It may still not be a huge amount of money, as instruments go, but for $1000, I would very much expect NOT to have to do those things.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this post, really informative and responds to my question. Just the sort of thing I was after!

blastoff99 said:
I'll play.

OP, you have stated, both in this thread and a previous one, that a Squier VM Jag SS goes for the equivalent of about $300 in your part of the world. Your theoretical question here becomes a whole lot less theoretical and a whole lot more practical (read "valid" to many people) if the $1000 changes to $300.

If you buy one, you're not going to spend $1000. But you will spend $300. So why not ask US buyers what they'd expect / be disappointed in / want to change if the bass cost $300?

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I'm not actually looking to buy a bass (bought a Gibson last week! :bassist:). That cost example was just to point out that often cost is not something that is easily compared between regions. As I have said, even the $1000 is just to encourage people to stop thinking about them as 'good for the price' basses.

The thread is more aimed at getting a definitive collection of honest assessments of squier instruments. Thanks for your input though!
 
#51
To me they are all the same and all look the same this is why I don't like them that much ... why spend 1500$ CAD for a MIA Fender when a Squier is an exact replica for 200$ CAD ...

Both have plastic finish, both have the same neck profile, both have the same overall shape, both sound alike...


So I'll be disapointed no matter the price and yes I did have a Fender MIM PJ when I started and later I bought a Squier Classic line and I played a Fender MIA in a store.

There is more of a direct value upgrade in Ibanez line. A low budget SR is very different from a high end SR ... the difference isn't so apparent with Fender
 
#53
I love my Squire VM. But it is not a $1000 instrument. As others have stated, as great as it is, you can still see it is built on the cheap, right down to their crappy stock strings which need to be replaced on day one.

At $1G, its best non- Fender competition would be a Carvin SB. I love my Squire, but it does not play like my SB4k.
 
#54
I have a gibson sg and I've had the epi version. While I'm sure a big part of the 800ish dollars I paid for mine is the name, it's also vastly superior to the epi. The pickups are more powerful and clear, the bridge....is well the bridge, the neck feels better, the frets are perfect, the tuners are great, and it came with a case. The epi is a good bass for the price, but not for the price of its American big brother.
 
#56
Thanks for this post, really informative and responds to my question. Just the sort of thing I was after!
Click to expand...

Well, I aim to please.;)

Realistically, however, at that price level, and all other things being fairly equal, if such a Squier existed, I would still buy the Fender.

Why? I love the sounds and the classic look and feel of the Fender styles, right down to the headstock. Closest I can(responsibly) come right now, is my somewhat "Fenderized" Squiers. And the name still carries weight with me. Not in a fanboy "Fenders are the best ever, and you have no testicles if you don't agree!" way, but I do love the legacy and history of the company, especially the Leo years. He made some mistakes, sure, but his contributions largely outweigh them, to me.
 
#57
If was to consider the relative value of a Squier CV P bass, I'd ask myself "how is an American standard Fender superior, as it affects ME?"

In my case, the only things I'd need to improve are the pickups, and MAYBE the pots and output jack. I've never had issues with the tuners on my CV.

In my case, that's a total of (stretching it) $250 in parts and labor if I was buying some super boutique Pup (which I would not). The Am. St. costs nearly $1,000 more than the Squier. Math seems simple enough to me.
 
#58
Clef_de_fa said:
To me they are all the same and all look the same this is why I don't like them that much ... why spend 1500$ CAD for a MIA Fender when a Squier is an exact replica for 200$ CAD ...

Both have plastic finish, both have the same neck profile, both have the same overall shape, both sound alike...


So I'll be disapointed no matter the price and yes I did have a Fender MIM PJ when I started and later I bought a Squier Classic line and I played a Fender MIA in a store.

There is more of a direct value upgrade in Ibanez line. A low budget SR is very different from a high end SR ... the difference isn't so apparent with Fender
Click to expand...

Except they do not share the same neck shapes, pickups, pickup ratings, pickup components, body woods, bridges, tuners or finishes as you claim. The "plastic" finishes as you call them are actually quite different in formulation, appearance and feel. Price is subjective but the facts aren't. A Squier is very far from being an exact replica of a US made Fender and that is a fact, plain and simple.
 

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