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17 year old curfew

#161
jkritchey said:
To me, if a teen feels his or her social life is more important than his or her parent's peace of mind, then said teen is lacking the judgment required to maintain much of a trust level.
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See thats exactly where, IMHO, the problem lies.

So it's the kid's fault for feeling that his social life is more important than his parents' peace of mind, or is it the parents' fault for feeling that their peace of mind is more important than the kid's social life?

This would pretty much be a kid's social life vs parents peace of mind issue then. If so, what is more important to you, that your kid comes out as an accomplished, aware human being, understanding of the world around him and used to dealing with it, or a new baby coming out of the nice egg you coveted for 25 years? Ok, I'm exaggerating, but what I'm saying is still true on a certain level. 11pm is killer. Sure, the kid will have school friends, but social interaction is all about girlfriends, real friends with whom, while you screw around, have the best times of your life with. When your kid is 18 and he goes off to college, and he lives in a dorm and has never gotten really drunk or high before, has never really been with a woman, never had a cop encounter, THAT'S when I would be scared and worried.
 
#162
guy n. cognito said:
To the contrary, I had a rather strict mother. I always had a curfew. At 21, I was paying my own bills, writing my own checks, paying my own rent, buying my own groceries. I was done with school, working a professional job and completely independent. Does that blow a hole in your theory? Are children with rules and boundries unable to take care of themselves? Of course not.
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I was waiting for this. Were you at 18? Because thats how old I was when I rented a house with 3 roomies and did all of that. :) I'm going on 4 years now, and am currently 21.

Children with rules and boundaries is a vague term. Rules and boundaries are necessary in the raising of any kid. It's to which extent those rules and boundaries are made that changes everything in the ability to take care of oneself.

And for the record, I don't have a theory. That's how I think I would raise my child yes. That's how I've been raised, and seen it work. 'Theory' is not quite an emphasizing enough word for describing the feeling expressed by my, as you call it, theory. ;)
 
#163
morf said:
See thats exactly where, IMHO, the problem lies.

So it's the kid's fault for feeling that his social life is more important than his parents' peace of mind, or is it the parents' fault for feeling that their peace of mind is more important than the kid's social life?

This would pretty much be a kid's social life vs parents peace of mind issue then. If so, what is more important to you, that your kid comes out as an accomplished, aware human being, understanding of the world around him and used to dealing with it, or a new baby coming out of the nice egg you coveted for 25 years? Ok, I'm exaggerating, but what I'm saying is still true on a certain level. 11pm is killer. Sure, the kid will have school friends, but social interaction is all about girlfriends, real friends with whom, while you screw around, have the best times of your life with. When your kid is 18 and he goes off to college, and he lives in a dorm and has never gotten really drunk or high before, has never really been with a woman, never had a cop encounter, THAT'S when I would be scared and worried.
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Other parts of being a responsible adult include being considerate of others or being mindful of rules and understanding the consequences for breaking them. Those things can be learned by curfew.

Why is it ok for a kid to have his first "cop encounter" or get high in high school, but scary if he does it in college. And, again, I had a strict upbringing, but I managed to maintain my self control in college. In New Orleans.....:rolleyes:
 
#164
morf said:
I was waiting for this. Were you at 18? Because thats how old I was when I rented a house with 3 roomies and did all of that. :) I'm going on 4 years now, and am currently 21.

Children with rules and boundaries is a vague term. Rules and boundaries are necessary in the raising of any kid. It's to which extent those rules and boundaries are made that changes everything in the ability to take care of oneself.
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Well, yes. I paid all my own bills, bought all my own groceries, managed my own money and worked two jobs to pay for school. I did this starting my first day at school at 18 years old. My parents did not pay for my schooling, nor send me any money during school. I went to school 400 miles away from home, so they had no oversight during my time at school. Is this a competition to see who had more responsibility first? We can start counting months, if you like.
 
#166
guy n. cognito said:
Other parts of being a responsible adult include being considerate of others or being mindful of rules and understanding the consequences for breaking them. Those things can be learned by curfew.
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Yes, but the terms of the curfew play a major role in the social interaction of your kid with the world. He has to fall in love, have friends he trusts with his life, see that he can have strong feelings for others just as he can for his family, this is what gives him the motivation to attack real life head on.

guy n. cognito said:
Why is it ok for a kid to have his first "cop encounter" or get high in high school, but scary if he does it in college. And, again, I had a strict upbringing, but I managed to maintain my self control in college. In New Orleans.....:rolleyes:
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Because in college, you're the newbie. You're out of high school, you see yourself as an adult for the first time, you want to try new things, see things differently, make new friends. College kids have a tendancy to overdo things, we all agree on that. Now if you've always been home by 11pm, you obviously never got drunk, or not often at all, you dont know much about it, but hey, everybody does it in college so you're gonna fit in and do it too. Only you've never drank half a bottle of jack daniels in 10 minutes before, in fact you've never drank anything but bud light and you end up in the hospital ;)

Sure, that doesn't happen to every kid. It's just an example. And while that, I could easily name at least 10 people I personally know who are just what I described, all americans too if needed ;)
 
#167
guy n. cognito said:
Well, yes. I paid all my own bills, bought all my own groceries, managed my own money and worked two jobs to pay for school. I did this starting my first day at school at 18 years old. My parents did not pay for my schooling, nor send me any money during school. I went to school 400 miles away from home, so they had no oversight during my time at school. Is this a competition to see who had more responsibility first? We can start counting months, if you like.
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You're the one who started telling me you too were young and still didnt lose control. And I never said that couldnt happen, only that my example of a wild kid in college whos always had a curfew and finally lets it out is quite frequent.
 
#169
morf said:
See thats exactly where, IMHO, the problem lies.

So it's the kid's fault for feeling that his social life is more important than his parents' peace of mind, or is it the parents' fault for feeling that their peace of mind is more important than the kid's social life?

This would pretty much be a kid's social life vs parents peace of mind issue then. If so, what is more important to you, that your kid comes out as an accomplished, aware human being, understanding of the world around him and used to dealing with it, or a new baby coming out of the nice egg you coveted for 25 years? Ok, I'm exaggerating, but what I'm saying is still true on a certain level. 11pm is killer. Sure, the kid will have school friends, but social interaction is all about girlfriends, real friends with whom, while you screw around, have the best times of your life with. When your kid is 18 and he goes off to college, and he lives in a dorm and has never gotten really drunk or high before, has never really been with a woman, never had a cop encounter, THAT'S when I would be scared and worried.
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What problem would that be? Seriously, you're saying there's some kind of problem? At my house? Huh?

How about if my "kid comes out as an accomplished, aware human being" who's courteous enough to call or meet a schedule? Any value there?

My son is out of the house shortly, then he's on his own to set his own time schedule. Hopefully he won't be myopic about it. After all, he's likely to have room mates for a number of years. And common courtesy is required.
 
#170
jkritchey said:
What problem would that be? Seriously, you're saying there's some kind of problem? At my house? Huh?

How about if my "kid comes out as an accomplished, aware human being" who's courteous enough to call or meet a schedule? Any value there?

My son is out of the house shortly, then he's on his own to set his own time schedule. Hopefully he won't be myopic about it. After all, he's likely to have room mates for a number of years. And common courtesy is required.
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Why do you take things personally? I dont even know you or your kid for that matter. I'm speaking in general terms, not specifically about your kid or yourself, since I have no clue what kind of person you are...

Werent you speaking in general terms when you said: To me, if a teen feels his or her social life is more important than his or her parent's peace of mind, then said teen is lacking the judgment required to maintain much of a trust level. ?

I disagree with your opinion, and if thats how you're raising your kid, I disagree with your way, but I dont judge you as a parent at all. Without knowing you very well thats is a ridiculous thing to even attempt. Sorry you took that the wrong way.
 
#171
morf said:
You're the one who started telling me you too were young and still didnt lose control. And I never said that couldnt happen, only that my example of a wild kid in college whos always had a curfew and finally lets it out is quite frequent.
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Really? I spent 4 years at college, and only a small handful of my fellow classmates "lost control." Quite frequent? Hardly. Plus, it still begs the question: why is it better for a kid to "lose control" at 16 or 17 that it is at 18 or older? Does that extra year of no rules and lax parenting somehow make a child more successful? If so, at what age should children be allowed to start making their own social decisions? How about 14?
 
#175
guy n. cognito said:
Really? I spent 4 years at college, and only a small handful of my fellow classmates "lost control." Quite frequent? Hardly. Plus, it still begs the question: why is it better for a kid to "lose control" at 16 or 17 that it is at 18 or older? Does that extra year of no rules and lax parenting somehow make a child more successful? If so, at what age should children be allowed to start making their own social decisions? How about 14?
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Hey, make a thread with a poll on how frequent that is. We'll see. :)

There's losing control and LOSING control. At 16 you're a kid, you're not influenced by 23yr old seniors who've been partying hard for 5-6 years and can take drinking alot and getting high. Guess you have to experience that to know it though.
 
#177
jkritchey said:
Sorry. I was just relating my experiences with my kids. Hard not to personalize it then.

What problem is there?
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the problem would be what is more important: kid's social life vs parents peace of mind?

Like I said earlier, if you believe your kid to be reasonable and have an adult sit down and talk to him, make him prove to you he's old enough to know where to draw the line, isnt the parents' peace of mind unreasonable when it comes to a 11pm curfew?? the kid's proven to you that he will be responsible, and friends are very important, whats a man without friends, relations, girlfriends?
 
#178
morf said:
Hey, make a thread with a poll on how frequent that is. We'll see. :)

There's losing control and LOSING control. At 16 you're a kid, you're not influenced by 23yr old seniors who've been partying hard for 5-6 years and can take drinking alot and getting high. Guess you have to experience that to know it though.
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No, at 16 you're being influenced by 18 year olds who've done much more drinking and partying than you have. Or your being influenced by you buddy's loser older brother who's 25, still living at home and makes a hobby out of getting high. Or you influenced by your friend's maid who's constantly trying to sell you weed or LSD? There's always pressure in life, my friend. Guess you have to experience that to know it.
 
#179
morf said:
the problem would be what is more important: kid's social life vs parents peace of mind?

Like I said earlier, if you believe your kid to be reasonable and have an adult sit down and talk to him, make him prove to you he's old enough to know where to draw the line, isnt the parents' peace of mind unreasonable when it comes to a 11pm curfew?? the kid's proven to you that he will be responsible, and friends are very important, whats a man without friends, relations, girlfriends?
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Why does a curfew prohibit a kid from having friends, relationships and girlfriends? It never did for me.
 
#180
guy n. cognito said:
No, at 16 you're being influenced by 18 year olds who've done much more drinking and partying than you have. Or your being influenced by you buddy's loser older brother who's 25, still living at home and makes a hobby out of getting high. Or you influenced by your friend's maid who's constantly trying to sell you weed or LSD? There's always pressure in life, my friend. Guess you have to experience that to know it.
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You're paranoid. The probability of getting high/drunk in college is much higher than the probability of your maid selling you lsd or being influenced by some 25 yr old couch pothead... which most 16 yr old kids actually really dislike generally.

As for being influenced by 18yr old kids, its still ok because its high school. Sure you'll be influenced, but it wont be nearly as bad as it would be for college students. And btw, we're talking about a 17yr old age limit, not 16.
 

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