For those who think different speaker sizes have "signature sounds" - have you tried playing with speakers pointed directly towards your head?
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18 inch cab
- Thread starter root fifth
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Put them in the mix where Speakers belong and then you get a sense of how different size drivers serve different purposes.
Why dont you EVER see a bunch of 10s under a stage for sub's you allways use and see 18's.
I realize that for the most part any size speaker can be tuned many different ways but you don't expect a bunch of 10's to do the job of 18's.
I used to Roadie for my parents in a Christian band and we used 8 pole mounted Bose speakers with multiple 4 inch drivers for the churches and they worked great for that because you could hear the full range with deep lows but thats it just hear the lows,if we would have added some 15 or 18 subs then you would feel the bass in a different way for sure.
You dont see these guys that are reaching crazy decible levels with there car stereos doing it with 10s! Lots of 18's for a reason.
There without a doubt a difference when using different size drivers in the real world.
Why dont you EVER see a bunch of 10s under a stage for sub's you allways use and see 18's.
I realize that for the most part any size speaker can be tuned many different ways but you don't expect a bunch of 10's to do the job of 18's.
I used to Roadie for my parents in a Christian band and we used 8 pole mounted Bose speakers with multiple 4 inch drivers for the churches and they worked great for that because you could hear the full range with deep lows but thats it just hear the lows,if we would have added some 15 or 18 subs then you would feel the bass in a different way for sure.
You dont see these guys that are reaching crazy decible levels with there car stereos doing it with 10s! Lots of 18's for a reason.
There without a doubt a difference when using different size drivers in the real world.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
in our band, we have two PA systems. one of them has a powered JBL 18" sub and the other has two EV 12" subs. the two EV subs put out a TON more low end (in the 30Hz-100HZ range) than the 18" does. the 18" sounds big and fluffy, but the 12's, sound way bigger, deeper, flap your pants, and pound your chest, and all of this in the 'real world'.
30hz-100hz range is a very wide range,I would not expect a 18 to do much in the 100hz range that is what the smaller drivers are for.
I use a 18 for SUPPORT especially when it is crossed over like your powered sub probobaly is,you can't expect a 18 crossed down for lower support to punch hard in the upper ranges,again thats what the smaller speakers are for.
I just re read your post and a very important question is what are you using for mains??
I use a 18 for SUPPORT especially when it is crossed over like your powered sub probobaly is,you can't expect a 18 crossed down for lower support to punch hard in the upper ranges,again thats what the smaller speakers are for.
I just re read your post and a very important question is what are you using for mains??
There's a lot of misunderstanding in this post. It's already been covered why certain sizes are chosen for different applications. You're absolutely wrong about car audio systems. I'm very familiar with that arena (at least used to be). Subs from 8"-21" are used in competition cars, most frequently are 12" and 10"s for various reasons, none of which are frequency range.
I don't doubt that people have had experiences that support their claims of "signature sound" for each speaker size. The problem is that they preach it like it's fact, when the truth is they either haven't compared enough cabinets, or they make wild assumptions without understanding the real reason WHY a specific cabinet or cabinets have sounded one way as opposed to another.
Let me offer an analogy. This is not directed at any one person, since this is debated on a daily basis here. Person A is a random user with lots of anecdotal evidence from their years of touring. Person B is a loudspeaker design expert.
A: I like the voice of people with big shoes, cause they can sing really low.
B: Shoe size doesn't have anything to do with vocal range.
A: You're crazy, my friend has big shoes, and he sings very deep, and every person with big shoes I've ever seen has a deep voice. Explain that one Urkel!
B: Some people have the ability to sing low, some can sing high, many can do both. It depends on lots of factors, none of them being shoe size. Please read <some linked articles>
A: There's a reason they use people with big feet for singing the deep parts in every opera I've ever seen on PBS. Show me a bunch of people with small shoes that can sing as low as Shaq. I'm getting the biggest shoes I can find, so I can sing really deep and shake the walls!
B: *Face palm*
Anecdotal evidence is nice, but it doesn't explore the WHY behind what you're hearing, it doesn't apply to every possible situation, whereas the physics that the experts here are generously teaching here (for free) do apply, always. So please, avail yourselves of the free education, ask questions with an open mind, and for Pete's sake, don't give out advice to others until you have a basic understanding of what you're talking about.
Obviously my stand isnt to say that a certain size speaker can only have one specific purpose I just get tired of hearing that driver size doesnt matter its ALL in how the cab is tuned which is true to a point for sure but you dont send a 150lbs kid to sumo wrestling match.
It seems like most of the Commercial cabs offered design and tune them to be used size specific for a certain job,Larger drivers for subs etc.
That is my point,I have heard four eights tuned so low that it was incredible but they didnt have the same punch and volume that four 10s or 12s would have a same quiality and design speakers.
Speakers are built very differently but still have certain restrictions and limitations compared to others depending upon what is asked of them.
It seems like most of the Commercial cabs offered design and tune them to be used size specific for a certain job,Larger drivers for subs etc.
That is my point,I have heard four eights tuned so low that it was incredible but they didnt have the same punch and volume that four 10s or 12s would have a same quiality and design speakers.
Speakers are built very differently but still have certain restrictions and limitations compared to others depending upon what is asked of them.
- Feb 16, 2008
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- 23,633
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- John K Custom Basses
I don't think we disagree here. Lots of commercial subwoofers use 18" speakers, yes. It's just the WHY that people argue over. It's not because 18"s go lower, or that smaller sizes can't reproduce that bottom the same way. The same job can be done with multiple 10" or even 5" speakers, but the trade offs aren't usually worth it. It would be less efficient, cost more, be bigger, heavier, probably less sensitive, and require more engineering devotion to deal with impedance, tuning, bracing, port design, etc..
Heck, I've heard some studio headphones that reproduce incredibly low bass frequencies, but using the 3/4" drivers in a stage monitor wouldn't be practical. Not because they have an undesirable signature sound, or can't go low, obviously they can. Many other reasons come into play.
Hi everyone.
I own 4 x18 cabs. By Bagend. (two), I have a 2x15 cab (Peavey made in 1985). I have P.a. cabs (Bagend with 1x15) And with 1x12 and with 2x 6,5 inch in one cab.
Jaco used a Cerwin Vega 18 inch in a folded horn. My 1x18 can take 800 watts and is frontloaded. I did a tent. Used that cab as P.A. cab with a 1x15 and horn cab on top and 2x 1x 18 cabs on either side. The Basscabs were fed by a 3500 watt poweramp So each side got 1600 watts wich means 800 watt per sub. It played LOUD (near max) for over 6 hours.
I began using the 1x18 because it was here. And it sounded way clearer and puncier than a Eden loaded Behringer 2x10 cab I have here aswell. I now allso have a 2x12 Bagend cab (true basscab).
All I can say from this assesment is my 1x18 is small, gives a big sound and it has a way newer driver than most people here have used. And when they use 1x18 of some sort it mostly is a non frontal loaded cab. Meaning high notes won't be heard. Wich is nessesary in order to use it as a full range cab.
Bagend speakers aren't cheap. The drivers used in them are one of the most expensive drivers to buy. But with the new neodynium thing my Bagends tell me 1x15 or 1x18 might be the new small cab to do it all (untill you get to that big big stage and you might need a cab or two more)... The Neodynium drivers have half the weight of the older ferrite magnets. So them speakers are way lighter. And with the current class D amps and with things like the Peavey VB3 (with it's switching powersupply meaning it weighs half of a SVT) newer lighter amplification methods are here...
Just my assesment and nothing more...
I own 4 x18 cabs. By Bagend. (two), I have a 2x15 cab (Peavey made in 1985). I have P.a. cabs (Bagend with 1x15) And with 1x12 and with 2x 6,5 inch in one cab.
Jaco used a Cerwin Vega 18 inch in a folded horn. My 1x18 can take 800 watts and is frontloaded. I did a tent. Used that cab as P.A. cab with a 1x15 and horn cab on top and 2x 1x 18 cabs on either side. The Basscabs were fed by a 3500 watt poweramp So each side got 1600 watts wich means 800 watt per sub. It played LOUD (near max) for over 6 hours.
I began using the 1x18 because it was here. And it sounded way clearer and puncier than a Eden loaded Behringer 2x10 cab I have here aswell. I now allso have a 2x12 Bagend cab (true basscab).
All I can say from this assesment is my 1x18 is small, gives a big sound and it has a way newer driver than most people here have used. And when they use 1x18 of some sort it mostly is a non frontal loaded cab. Meaning high notes won't be heard. Wich is nessesary in order to use it as a full range cab.
Bagend speakers aren't cheap. The drivers used in them are one of the most expensive drivers to buy. But with the new neodynium thing my Bagends tell me 1x15 or 1x18 might be the new small cab to do it all (untill you get to that big big stage and you might need a cab or two more)... The Neodynium drivers have half the weight of the older ferrite magnets. So them speakers are way lighter. And with the current class D amps and with things like the Peavey VB3 (with it's switching powersupply meaning it weighs half of a SVT) newer lighter amplification methods are here...
Just my assesment and nothing more...
a lot. porting can make up a lot of low end that your speaker doesn't produce.
- Dec 21, 2007
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- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
That's what we've been saying - porting and cabinet design do huge, huge things.
Play through a bunch of cabs, find ones you like.
BTW, the Acme B2 or B4 have as much low end as anything you're likely to play...
"man you ain't lyin'!" I remember one time JimmyM had me in an australian cobra strangle and just when I thought I could wiggle out of it BFM showed up and put an atomic elbow drop on me!
jk, they are great guys with a lot of knowledge, we all take a lot of bruising when we first learn that...
