18 inch cab

[JimmyM]

Except that the only way to prove that is do what I said in an earlier post: "...someone designs a 18" and 10" that sound exactly the same....

bullcrap. if all these scads and scads of 410 and 115 cabs on the market that don't sound like each other doesn't convince you that there is not a signature sound you can attribute to speaker size alone, then nothing will, and that's where i check out of trying to convince you further. so believe what you want, but ample proof has been given to you that your beliefs are inaccurate, and if you choose to keep believing it, that's on you.

 

[Johnius]

see post 126

Yeah, I had read that earlier, but I really don't think it's the whole story. Perhaps 10s put out as much low end as 15s - maybe - but I think there's a mid/high bump on 10s that may obscure the lower end - just as it has been claimed in here that the 18 inch spread obscures the high end. This is just an opinion based on cabs I've tried. With the exception of the SWR Goliath 410, I don't like the sound I get from 10s. If I don't like the sound of 1 ten inch cab, why would I like that sound quadrupled?

Instead of talking about what cabs will and will not do what, maybe we should discuss these matters in terms of the balance threshold. My Mesa 12 Scout is the perfect low/mid/high balanc for me. Others will like (what I perceive to be) the mid and high threhsold focus of a 410.

Lastly, I believe I saw Tal use an 18 under a 410 while playing with Jeff Beck and she sounded fantastic.

 

[BogeyBass]

You can argue all day about 15" this and 18" that, but the only way to really get low B is to design a light and portable 21" speaker.

So i decided to have some fun with Google sketch up, I designed a very portable 21 x 21" speaker cabinet.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[JimmyM]

i've only seen tal use four ebs 410's in a double stack with beck. not saying she never did an 18, but i've yet to see it.

if there is a mid bump on a 10, then it was a design goal of whoever designed it. one needs only look at the frequency response plots of eminence's speakers to see that not all of them have that bump and some have a bigger bump than others.

 

[Johnius]

i've only seen tal use four ebs 410's in a double stack with beck. not saying she never did an 18, but i've yet to see it.

if there is a mid bump on a 10, then it was a design goal of whoever designed it. one needs only look at the frequency response plots of eminence's speakers to see that not all of them have that bump and some have a bigger bump than others.

And as I've been thinking about my own post I realize that if SWR can make what I would consider a low end focused 410, then it can be done. Simple as that. Hm. Let me ask you this, though, Jimmy - what is the diameter cut off point? That diameter where there is no low end, just mids and highs? A previous posted commented that he played through 32 5s, which, HOLY CRAP!, but aside from that, there has to be a minimum size below which you cannot emit 40Hz, no?

And to the poster above who said a 21" is needed to hear the low B - if you listen to Jauqo III-X's album "The Low C# Theory" with anything less than 30s all you'll hear is that sound made when the quarter panels on the car in front of you are rumbling. I'm only kidding here to a point - I cannot discern his pitch on my Bose iPod player and it's still difficult on my 12/6/tweet Cerwin Vega speakers.

My point is that I believe there is a minimum size required.

 

[JimmyM]

johnius, that's a far cry from saying that speakers have a signature sound based on their size, isn't it? however, you can design small speakers to go that low if you want. the problem, as stated before by bill, is between the three factors of low, loud and small, you can only pick two, so you get diminishing volume returns on a 4" woofer that goes to 30hz. and that's why you see larger speakers for the most part. phil jones would definitely argue your theory that small speakers can't go low.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

The Cerwin Vega 18s have no trouble with 16th notes - not sure how often we get to 32nd notes. But the cab seems as fast as my 6x10.
.

Now we've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous to the totally ludicrous. Beam me up, Scotty...

 

[GregDunn]

What Jimmy says. A speaker of any size can be designed to emit a clean 40 Hz tone. Now, maybe you won't be able to get it to play loud enough without a bizarre and huge cabinet, but no, there really isn't a size cutoff per se. The tendency has been for the smaller drivers to have a flatter mid and upper range, but that's another design choice, not a fundamental limitation.

 

[Johnius]

johnius, that's a far cry from saying that speakers have a signature sound based on their size, isn't it?

I've been trying to get around this but you're right. What I have to change to is that most of the 10s I've heard to date have a mid focus.

I've never tried the Phil Jones set ups so I can't comment.

 

[kesslari]

I'm waiting for Raymond to correctly ID the speaker sizes based on their signatures.

C'mon, dude - they have known signature sounds that you or any experienced bass player can identify.

 

[BassmanPaul]

if there is a mid bump on a 10, then it was a design goal of whoever designed it. one needs only look at the frequency response plots of eminence's speakers to see that not all of them have that bump and some have a bigger bump than others.

For myself, I like the bigger bumps!

 

[babebambi]

is that your final answer? even if it's not, i'm going to tell you that you're wrong

1 is a prototype of an audiokinesis cab with 212's and a mid horn.

2 is a B-15 double baffle cab from 1964 with a single 15".

3 is a markbass mini cmd121p combo with a 12" and a tweeter.

4 is an old tube works 410t from about 1989.

is it just me?
I think in the all clips, except #3, the E, A has a distinctly different tone than D, G.

 

[BogeyBass]

For myself, I like the bigger bumps!

Are we talking speakers? or Breast Size....

Maybe manufactures should change the terminology for marketing.
Instead of making big false claims about wattage and -3dB points.

You could just compare speakers to women's cup size instead

Would you like a B cup Combo? , C cup Combo?

or the Deluxe Double D combo?

 

[Bean639]

someone said earlier that designing a 8 and 18 that sounded exactly the same would be a lot of work for "one guy on the internet"

seems to me that this comes up all the time... heck. Maybe it will even get published in some engineering mag...



(stirs the pot)

 

[BogeyBass]

someone said earlier that designing a 8 and 18 that sounded exactly the same would be a lot of work for "one guy on the internet"

seems to me that this comes up all the time... heck. Maybe it will even get published in some engineering mag...
(stirs the pot)

A 8" that sounds like a 18".....oh yah sure no problem

lets see......8" = A cup 18" =D cup
no problem, its just going to take alot of extra padding but it will look/sound exactly the same,

Trust me, In a Blind test you would never know the difference

 

[johnk_10]

You could just compare speakers to women's cup size instead

Would you like a B cup Combo? , C cup Combo?

or the Deluxe Double D combo?

some of my cabs sound like a triple E!

 

[AnnieSocial]

Back in the seventies I had a Cerwin-Vega B36 MF; it had one 18" in a folded horn and one 12" facing front. Amazing cab...

 

[BogeyBass]

Back in the seventies I had a Cerwin-Vega B36 MF; it had one 18" in a folded horn and one 12" facing front. Amazing cab...

Uh oh..., looks like this is bad news for all the guys, that say an 18" don't work.

AnnieSocial says it worked for her, I would have to agree.

My Acoustic 301 cab with its 18" Cerwin Vega in a Horn loaded cabinet was my favorite too.

In fact the bright switch on the matching 370 amp does not make sense with any other cab. The bright switch was so bright you would swear that satan invented it himself.

But if you flicked the bright switch on ,running the single 18....you say oh darn that sounds good.

and then again i would say in a blind test you could not tell if it was a 1x18" horn or a 4 x10. except the 18 would be twice as loud.

Sorry Paul looks like John Paul Jones and Anniesocial are my new technical advisers.....Looks like an 18" really does work.
There is a movie by Led Zeppelin called " The song remains the same"....thats what a 18 inch sounds like, just listen carefully

 

[GrowlerBox]

Uh oh..., looks like this is bad news for all the guys, that say an 18" don't work.

AnnieSocial says it worked for her, I would have to agree.

My Acoustic 301 cab with its 18" Cerwin Vega in a Horn loaded cabinet was my favorite too.

In fact the bright switch on the matching 370 amp does not make sense with any other cab. The bright switch was so bright you would swear that satan invented it himself.

But if you flicked the bright switch on ,running the single 18....you say oh darn that sounds good.

and then again i would say in a blind test you could not tell if it was a 1x18" horn or a 4 x10. except the 18 would be twice as loud.

Sorry Paul looks like John Paul Jones and Anniesocial are my new technical advisers.....Looks like an 18" really does work.
There is a movie by Led Zeppelin called " The song remains the same"....thats what a 18 inch sounds like, just listen carefully

Dude, I just need you to promise me one thing. Don't EVER take my side in an argument. OK?

 

[madmatt]

Ask your girlfriend if size matters. The same answer applies to drivers.

NEVER ask your girlfriend if size matters...