1965 Fender Jazz Nut Issue (With Pictures)

[Rip Van Dan]

My dad pretty much gave me his 1965 Fender jazz that he has owned for the past 50 years or so. I've been playing it for a few years now and I wanted it to play its very best so I set it up the other day, adjusted the truss rod, string height, intonation etc. All according to the proper specifications provided by Fender. The bass plays way better, and it already played great!

The only issue I am having now is some fret buzz coming from the first fret when I play open strings. I checked the nut and according to the few tests people recommend, the nut slots are too deep, especially the G string.

I took a closer look and I think for certain the nut slots are too deep. I would attribute this to being played for half a century or so:

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Now the bass is all original for the most part. My dad had a clear coat put on the body, over top of the original paint years ago as he said the paint was coming off everywhere when he played. Other than that it is original and I don't want to replace the nut or anything like that.

Side note: The height adjustment screws on the bridge would loosen up after playing a gig and it would be a mess. Someone on this forum recommended using clear nail polish to lock the screws after they have been adjusted. That was phenomenal advice and they don't move a bit. Others recommended replacing the bridge and keeping the original tucked away safe in the case. I didn't want to do that though, I wanted the bass to look the same as always. In this situation with the nut, I don't want to replace it or have to modify it much. I want the bass to remain looking original.

With that being said, I'm looking for any tips or tricks that can help keep this bass original yet playable with respect to the nut issue I'm having. I've thought of sticking something in the nut slots to raise the strings a bit but that seems a little half assed. Maybe not, depending on the material?

Please let me know if you have heard or known of a trick to fix too deep of nut slots. Worst case I will just leave it alone, the bass plays great and it sounds phenomenal plugged in.

Thank you very much and bellow there will be some pictures of the bass. Who doesn't like a thread with pictures.

Here is the same bass in different decades:

Late 60's?:

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Early 70s's?:

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1980s?:

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Here is the bass now:

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I greatly appreciate any advice regarding the nut, and in return, I hope this thread is a little bit entertaining.

- Sonny

So, what's the story on the black headpiece on that bass? I've never seen one on a '65 or earlier. I don't recall matching head-stocks being available back then. Looks like he might have added that to it and then added the slip decal afterwards. My '65 that I bought in 1966 had various patent numbers underneath the Fender logo. Any idea? It's obviously been that way since at least the 70's as your pictures show.

 

[bobyoung53]

Problem with most super glues is that they are as thin as water. Get one of the "gel" or "gel control" glues (loctite makes one) for this. After about 24-hours, you can just use an old G string rubbing it back and forth to sand that slot down to the depth you need (presuming you have round wound strings, flats won't do that).

Yeah, I think I put a little masking tape in front and back of the nut, but the gel idea is better.

 

[Iridescentone]

Baking soda and glue is not "ghetto", it's standard practice. What IS ghetto is putting a little wad of paper in the slot. First, it looks hack. Secondly, it effectively makes the string wider, which puts unwanted pressure against the sides of the slot...not a good idea on an old fragile nut. If you crack the nut, it's basically game over for that nut.

Cutting a new nut, then saving the original for posterity is not a bad idea. Except for one caveat...you have to safely remove the fragile original without cracking it. If it's already loose, then no prob. If it's still glued in place (like it's supposed to be), you'll have to break that glue joint to get it out....be extra careful doing that, and don't be too surprised if it cracks.

The glue & baking soda maneuver is basically foolproof and it works great. And don't let anyone tell you that the original nut doesn't affect value. It does, just like solder joints, wires, decals, cases, etc. I'm sure you know this, but the vast majority of the value of that bass lies in its collectability. Period. Little things mean something to collectors of vintage guitars, and the people who deal in them. Originality is everything, you're right to preserve the nut. Good luck.

 

[bucephylus]

So, what's the story on the black headpiece on that bass? I've never seen one on a '65 or earlier. I don't recall matching head-stocks being available back then. Looks like he might have added that to it and then added the slip decal afterwards. My '65 that I bought in 1966 had various patent numbers underneath the Fender logo. Any idea? It's obviously been that way since at least the 70's as your pictures show.

In fact, Fender quite definitely put the matching headstock finishes on the custom color Jazz Basses early on. The neck on my '62 is largely original with def original finish. I've seen exactly two slab board black ones for sale over the years, but couldn't afford either one of them. Both of those had black headstocks.

 

[Iridescentone]

So, what's the story on the black headpiece on that bass? I've never seen one on a '65 or earlier. I don't recall matching head-stocks being available back then. Looks like he might have added that to it and then added the slip decal afterwards. My '65 that I bought in 1966 had various patent numbers underneath the Fender logo. Any idea? It's obviously been that way since at least the 70's as your pictures show.

Matching color headstocks on custom color jazzes is the norm, from ~ '63 thru '68. I've never seen one that didn't have it, except for blonde.

Old black Jazzes are some of the rarest. You only see the gold Fender logo because everything else is black and couldn't be seen against the black paint anyway.

 

[bucephylus]

I took my bass to my very cool dentist. She put composite in the slots and cured it with UV light. Then I took it to my luthier to file the slots. Job done!

From a materials standpoint, this is the best solution I've read. As others have posted, restoring the original slot depths to original would just require proper files; but, I seriously doubt that even a trained eye would pick up on it. I usually also go for reversible whenever possible. But, this is the best solution for this particular issue, IMO/E.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

In fact, Fender quite definitely put the matching headstock finishes on the custom color Jazz Basses early on. The neck on my '62 is largely original with def original finish. I've seen exactly two slab board black ones for sale over the years, but couldn't afford either one of them. Both of those had black headstocks.

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Very cool. But since it's a '65, I'd expect the patent numbers under the Logo like my '65 did. I notice yours doesn't have them either, but yours is from 3 years before my '65 was made. I like it though, just thought it weird they didn't put all the patent info on it. If I recall correctly there were 4 or 5 of them...Sweeeet Bass both yours and the OP's!

 

[bucephylus]

Very cool. But since it's a '65, I'd expect the patent numbers under the Logo like my '65 did. I notice yours doesn't have them either, but yours is from 3 years before my '65 was made. I like it though, just thought it weird they didn't put all the patent info on it. If I recall correctly there were 4 or 5 of them...Sweeeet Bass both yours and the OP's!

Bryan Galloup, a star student of Dan Erlewine, helped me out with my restoration back in 1987. The only work he did on the neck was re-fretting it, replacing the 19th fret clay dot, and replacing the brass truss rod screw end. The rest was original.

Anyhow, Bryan told me that Fender literally cut off the patent information from the slide transfer, only for the custom color black basses. Which actually makes sense.

 

[SonnyMorrow]

I'm by no means an expert on these Fenders but I have done a fair bit of research on the black Jazz basses from this era. A lot of them have the decal snipped as the black text does not really show up well on the black headstock. I think all of the ones I have seen online have them snipped. My dad's has the full logo, black text and all:

The headstock on this bass is for sure original, never touched. Maybe this is very rare but I have yet to see one with the full decal.

 

[GretschWretch]

You can put a piece of tape both in front and in back of the nut too to keep the glue from running if the stuff you have is very thin. It dries slowly if it's thick but dries hard as a rock.

Yes, masking off the neck and fingerboard is a must. Nomadic CA glue can create major problems even for a newer bass. To slow down the glues flow, place the CA tube in the freezer overnight.

 

[murph7489]

I think the paper method will quickly lead to new nut city...that thing will probably come apart in pieces when you attempt to take it off to put the shim in, which leads me to the suggestion of putting a new nut on it..the strings aren't original either...some parts have to be changed, or...you can put it on a wall or in the case to keep to have to remember your dad n the connection you share in music

 

[murph7489]

I'd just have a new nut installed, and simply keep the old one. A replaced nut won't really 'de-value' a vintage Fender, especially if you still have the original.

yes and I gotta be honest if i was buying a 65 bass and I saw that the nut was shimmed with a piece of paper or some other mcgyver type of fix, it would raise the red flag and I would have to go through the entire bass and determine what else has been home engineered..lol. with a good nut on there..I don't even question it especially if you keep the original one..

 

[SonnyMorrow]

Very cool Bass Sonny. I bought a 1965 Jazz in 1966 and played it throughout high school, some college, toured with it for 3 years, and then played weekends after I stopped touring. Then, in 1976, it was stolen. Found my current bass in 1985 and, although its an all maple neck, it has the same shape profile and radius as my '65 did. Took me almost 10-years to find that and I've been playing it for the last 35-years

Here's a shot of me playing my '65 in either late '71 or early '72. That's my Standel amp behind the guitarist:
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Super cool, I bet you still wonder if it is out there somewhere.. What a shame. Happy to hear you found an '85 with a good neck though. The cool thing about the all maple neck is you can see the finger wear on the fretboard, eventually. I love that worn in look that the rosewoods don't generally show due to the dark hue.

 

[SonnyMorrow]

So I have yet to actually decide what I will do with the nut but first things first, this morning I decided to try to remove the nut. My logic being: If I was going to go the route of replacing the nut, the old one had to come off. If I was going to shim it, the old one would have to come off. And if I was going to repair the old one, I thought it would be best with the nut removed as to avoid the possibility of contaminating the fingerboard/headstock with glue. I figured that was a good place to start.

If it was going to require too much force I would leave it alone. But not even five minutes into surgery, the nut loosened up to my surprise. I used a tiny bit of heat from a heat gun and painstakingly ran a thin razor blade around the perimeter. I didn't make a single scuff mark, I am very pleased with the job. Nothing is fixed of course but to get that nut removed in one piece was something I was unsure could happen, given how old and brittle it probably is.

I know most of you would leave this kind of stuff to a professional but I trust myself over someone else when it comes to things like this, unless they were a highly regarded luthier which is not easy to find where I live. The same reason I would never let someone work on my cars either, I simply care about them more than they would and I am also a very competent hands on person. I suppose the temperament of a luthier should be different than that of a mechanic but I digress.

With regard to the bass overall, I wish to play it for the rest of my time as a bass player. It is and will be my primary instrument. I want it to play excellent as well as retain its original look.

To add a new nut and then try to make it look old seems like a poser/wannabe move. Might as well repair the real thing. The bass will never be sold as long as I'm alive. I do, however, want to make the right decision with any repairs on this instrument.

With that being said, some of you have said shimming the nut is a bad idea. I am curious why. That procedure most likely would allow for the original nut to be untouched. What are the repercussions of this?

 

[TomB]

If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to shape a replacement nut to your total satisfaction. Keep the original, of course, but enjoy the replacement process!

 

[GalleyCat]

If you're good enough to do that, you're good enough to shape a replacement nut to your total satisfaction. Keep the original, of course, but enjoy the replacement process!

I concur. Get a new bone blank and antique it with tea or some other natural tannic dye. Document your process and put the old nut in a little plastic baggie and keep it with the instrument.

 

[Bass Viking]

Stewart MacDonald makes this nut powder. There's even a video:

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[JoeWPgh]

The only downside to shimming the nut, is that open strings *might* be slightly deader, but that is doubtful. Before shimming, I would check if re-centering the nut solves things. If not, a piece of cardboard, say from a matchbook, would likely be enough. Or pehaps a layer or two from a business card. Trimmed right, the shim will be all but invisible. That said, I would do the super glue trick if only a single string was off - More than one string, and I would shim the nut.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Honestly for a bass that nice and sentimental, I'd take it to a professional and get a new nut made from bone and maybe a PLEK job. Dan Ransom comes to mind, he PLEK'd my jazz bass and made a new nut. It plays unbelievably well.

 

[murph7489]

in my opinion which I've already stated, I think you should get a new nut..,cmon man that bass is special, I dare say you may even have love for it..sentimental love...putting a piece of paper under it or filling it in with glue and dust or whatever is the equivalent of taking your wife to McDonalds for an anniversary dinner...that is all..