34" 5-string: anti-floppy B query

[abarson]

This may be opening up old wounds, but I need to ask those who have more 5-string experience than I do.

I'm a 4-string player looking to build my own 5-string. From the 35" basses I've tried (MTD, Fender, Carvin, Ibanez, etc.) I really didn't like the extra reach. The 34" 5-strings I tried (Tobias, Pedulla, etc.) convinced me that I don't want to change scale.

But what is the secret to avoiding "floppy B syndrome"?
Is it neck stiffness?
Is it headstock angle?
Is it moving the B tuner farther away from the nut?
Is it any, all or none of the above?

 

[Double Agent]

IMO, its 3 main things. A stiff neck, a rock solid neck-joint, and a good, massive bridge. The bridge doesn't have to be heavy, just good and solid. These are common elements I've found all good low B strings, whether they are 34" or 35" scale. My $0.02, YMMV.

 

[PSPookie]

Double Agent's post makes sense to me. The headstock angle and moving the tuner won't do anything to change the peceived tension on the B.

IMO/IME on a well-built instrument the perception of a 'floppy' B has more to do with the strings and the amp than 34" vs 35" scale.

 

[RTL]

I've never seen a Fender with a 35" Scale. Which model did you play?

 

[spade2you]

Double Agent's post makes sense to me. The headstock angle and moving the tuner won't do anything to change the peceived tension on the B.

Yes and no. I once clipped a B string too short and it was flop city. The previous strings were old, but didn't have this problem. I put on another string with more windings and it was good as new.

 

[bjlevine]

Having played both 34" and 35", I think there is a huge difference in the B string, enough to justify the move to 35".

 

[fullrangebass]

Yes and no. I once clipped a B string too short and it was flop city. The previous strings were old, but didn't have this problem. I put on another string with more windings and it was good as new.

The downward angle keeps the string more solidly in place (in the nut groove) but does nothing to the tension of the string

 

[dean owens]

i was thinking about this a few days ago. i have a spector rebop (35") and the b-string is a little floppier than my cheap hamer slammer (34"). i've tried to figure out why. my only guess is from the ball of the b-string to the tuner is about 37" on my spector. my hamer has a reverse headstock and i haven't measured but i'd it's about 39". so even though the nut to bridge length is an inch shorter, the ball to tuner length is 2 inches longer. i like the b on my spector. but i expected a super tight string with all the talk about 35" b-strings coming from my 34".

 

[McHack]

Huh,

I had a Lakland 5'er & have a MM SR5 now, neither B flops more than the other. I run the same strings on both, DR SS Hi Beam mediums.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

abarson, I'm no physicist, but I once asked a physics professor about this, and her off-the-top-of-her-head response was pretty much that only string gauge and scale length should have anything above a negligible effect on string tension.

Since you're set on a 34" scale, I'd say, just use heavier-gauge B strings.

Dean, are you using the same kind of strings on both basses?

 

[Bocete]

You could also experiment with different strings - either get a heavy gauge or strings made of a different material or a different maker (I find D'Addario chromes pretty tense, love them for that).

You could up-tune a halfstep. You'll lose just the low B note, but tension-wise it will behave like a 35" bass. And you still go deep enough, unless you insist on a B.

All these combined, the B will be very, very tense. I did all of these on my 34", the only way I could use the B string actually.

 

[RickenBoogie]

Since you're set on a 34" scale, I'd say, just use heavier-gauge B strings.

A huge +1 to that. Try a .135 gauge B string. I bet it cures the flops.

 

[alexofc69]

Personally i prefer 35 in scale. But,
I used to have a Schecter Stilletto Custom 5 which was 34" scale. This bass had one of the punchiest and tightest B strings yet! It rang like a piano! It was even better then my MTDs. I just didnt like the narrow string spacing or the EMG HZs. I would buy one again.

 

[73jbass]

abarson, I'm no physicist, but I once asked a physics professor about this, and her off-the-top-of-her-head response was pretty much that only string gauge and scale length should have anything above a negligible effect on string tension.

Winner!! I use nothing less than a .130 on my B strings.2 have a .135. The only way to effect string tension,is to change something between the bridge saddle,and nut.

 

[spade2you]

The downward angle keeps the string more solidly in place (in the nut groove) but does nothing to the tension of the string

Overall tension, no. There is, however, more tension at the nut. There's definitely some sort of relationship. In my experience, this most likely will only affect the open note.

 

[PSPookie]

abarson, I'm no physicist, but I once asked a physics professor about this, and her off-the-top-of-her-head response was pretty much that only string gauge and scale length should have anything above a negligible effect on string tension.

The physics behind this explanation is sound (no pun intended).

Much of what is perceived as tension in strings is actually pliability, or a lack thereof. My own personal experiences also lead me to believe that you cab may have something to do with any perceived sonic floppiness.

 

[dean owens]

Dean, are you using the same kind of strings on both basses?

i thought i was. my spector has d'addario 45-130 and i thought that's what i always put on my hamer. but i can't say for sure. i don't play enough to have to change the strings regularly... with the time between changes i might have used 50-??? for my hamer.

don't get me wrong. my b-string is floppy on my spector. i just think it's tighter on my hamer. i'll try to get it out and play around on both and make sure i'm not just making up stuff.

 

[PSPookie]

Overall tension, no. There is, however, more tension at the nut. There's definitely some sort of relationship. In my experience, this most likely will only affect the open note.

Nope. That is not physically possible. Tension will be uniform throughout the string.

There will, however, be more downward force at the nut with an angled headstock.

Sorry about the knitpicking

 

[spade2you]

Nope. That is not physically possible. Tension will be uniform throughout the string.

There will, however, be more downward force at the nut with an angled headstock.

Sorry about the knitpicking

Yes, I guess downward force is the appropriate term and not something that should be ignored in the equation.

 

[mrpackerguy]

This has sort of been hit on above, but it seems to me on the 34" scale 5'ers I play and have played, that higher tension and roundwound strings = least floppiness, and more low B clarity.

That being said, I won't switch out my low tension, flatwound TI Flats on my SR5 'cause I love 'em too much.