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3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

But he’s supplying what he can. If he charged what the market is willing to pay, people would still be mad.

People will be mad and bitch or moan no matter what he does. He is in a no-win situation. This is common for any business. People think they know how to run a business because they use businesses each day. They may have worked at a low level check out style position in the past, but that still isn't enough knowledge to actually run the back end of a business and they mistakenly think all consumers have the same habits / patterns as themselves.

It is like many things these days: Teaching, everyone thinks they can be a teacher because they sat in a classroom as a child, I mean why bother with a degree, I sat in a classroom as a young child I know how to do the job. But they don't see the back end, the planning, preparing, Risk analysis before activities, meetings, navigating a legal framework, etc. Medicine, everyone thinks they are roughly equal to a degree trained doctor because they google their symptoms and will come in and question your experience and knowledge as if they are a peer. Etc.

Business is the same. You always get people telling you what to do, that have never run a business. Or someone from a totally different industry thinking their business practices transfer over to your industry.

With the internet the way it is, and with forums like this being more or less anonymous resulting in people posting things they wouldn't say to someones face, Spencer can never win - and I can totally understand why he would avoid these sorts of social media. There will always be people complaining, not enough pedals, price too high, don't like the bundle, more drops more frequently, I want it to sound like this, change your website to this, do this on your website, turn on apple pay, turn it off it is unfair, have a waiting list, do a raffle, change the drop times, etc. etc.

It is a no win situation, you can't please everyone, and there will always be fans and whiners. Personally, i'd rather see the more positive side of things, and if you are doom scrolling, or trolling, i'd say your time would be better spent actually playing or practicing your instrument then spending hours bitching about a pedal - hell even go read a book, learn something new. I mean really think how much wasted time people spend spewing negativity online, and what constructive things they could do with their time if they chose to do something more productive in the end.
 
People will be mad and bitch or moan no matter what he does. He is in a no-win situation. This is common for any business. People think they know how to run a business because they use businesses each day. They may have worked at a low level check out style position in the past, but that still isn't enough knowledge to actually run the back end of a business and they mistakenly think all consumers have the same habits / patterns as themselves.

It is like many things these days: Teaching, everyone thinks they can be a teacher because they sat in a classroom as a child, I mean why bother with a degree, I sat in a classroom as a young child I know how to do the job. But they don't see the back end, the planning, preparing, Risk analysis before activities, meetings, navigating a legal framework, etc. Medicine, everyone thinks they are roughly equal to a degree trained doctor because they google their symptoms and will come in and question your experience and knowledge as if they are a peer. Etc.

Business is the same. You always get people telling you what to do, that have never run a business. Or someone from a totally different industry thinking their business practices transfer over to your industry.

With the internet the way it is, and with forums like this being more or less anonymous resulting in people posting things they wouldn't say to someones face, Spencer can never win - and I can totally understand why he would avoid these sorts of social media. There will always be people complaining, not enough pedals, price too high, don't like the bundle, more drops more frequently, I want it to sound like this, change your website to this, do this on your website, turn on apple pay, turn it off it is unfair, have a waiting list, do a raffle, change the drop times, etc. etc.

It is a no win situation, you can't please everyone, and there will always be fans and whiners. Personally, i'd rather see the more positive side of things, and if you are doom scrolling, or trolling, i'd say your time would be better spent actually playing or practicing your instrument then spending hours bitching about a pedal - hell even go read a book, learn something new. I mean really think how much wasted time people spend spewing negativity online, and what constructive things they could do with their time if they chose to do something more productive in the end.
The internet has been weighed, measured and been found wanting. Well done. :thumbsup:
 
People will be mad and bitch or moan no matter what he does. He is in a no-win situation. This is common for any business. People think they know how to run a business because they use businesses each day. They may have worked at a low level check out style position in the past, but that still isn't enough knowledge to actually run the back end of a business and they mistakenly think all consumers have the same habits / patterns as themselves.

It is like many things these days: Teaching, everyone thinks they can be a teacher because they sat in a classroom as a child, I mean why bother with a degree, I sat in a classroom as a young child I know how to do the job. But they don't see the back end, the planning, preparing, Risk analysis before activities, meetings, navigating a legal framework, etc. Medicine, everyone thinks they are roughly equal to a degree trained doctor because they google their symptoms and will come in and question your experience and knowledge as if they are a peer. Etc.

Business is the same. You always get people telling you what to do, that have never run a business. Or someone from a totally different industry thinking their business practices transfer over to your industry.

With the internet the way it is, and with forums like this being more or less anonymous resulting in people posting things they wouldn't say to someones face, Spencer can never win - and I can totally understand why he would avoid these sorts of social media. There will always be people complaining, not enough pedals, price too high, don't like the bundle, more drops more frequently, I want it to sound like this, change your website to this, do this on your website, turn on apple pay, turn it off it is unfair, have a waiting list, do a raffle, change the drop times, etc. etc.

It is a no win situation, you can't please everyone, and there will always be fans and whiners. Personally, i'd rather see the more positive side of things, and if you are doom scrolling, or trolling, i'd say your time would be better spent actually playing or practicing your instrument then spending hours bitching about a pedal - hell even go read a book, learn something new. I mean really think how much wasted time people spend spewing negativity online, and what constructive things they could do with their time if they chose to do something more productive in the end.

Wise Words.
 
Personally, i'd rather see the more positive side of things
Agreed. Here's one: On Saturday I played a wedding gig and got to bust out my Proton V4 for the first time in a while. It permanently lives on my board, and even though I rarely get a chance to use it on my current gigs I keep it on there because it's just so much fun on the rare occasion it makes an appearance on a gig. We had a bunch of special request songs for the gig, and two of them have envelope filter on the original recording. I really enjoyed the opportunity. My Octabvre is used multiple times on every gig without exception, but it's nice when its sibling gets a chance to do its thing.
 
People will be mad and bitch or moan no matter what he does. He is in a no-win situation. This is common for any business. People think they know how to run a business because they use businesses each day. They may have worked at a low level check out style position in the past, but that still isn't enough knowledge to actually run the back end of a business and they mistakenly think all consumers have the same habits / patterns as themselves.

It is like many things these days: Teaching, everyone thinks they can be a teacher because they sat in a classroom as a child, I mean why bother with a degree, I sat in a classroom as a young child I know how to do the job. But they don't see the back end, the planning, preparing, Risk analysis before activities, meetings, navigating a legal framework, etc. Medicine, everyone thinks they are roughly equal to a degree trained doctor because they google their symptoms and will come in and question your experience and knowledge as if they are a peer. Etc.

Business is the same. You always get people telling you what to do, that have never run a business. Or someone from a totally different industry thinking their business practices transfer over to your industry.

With the internet the way it is, and with forums like this being more or less anonymous resulting in people posting things they wouldn't say to someones face, Spencer can never win - and I can totally understand why he would avoid these sorts of social media. There will always be people complaining, not enough pedals, price too high, don't like the bundle, more drops more frequently, I want it to sound like this, change your website to this, do this on your website, turn on apple pay, turn it off it is unfair, have a waiting list, do a raffle, change the drop times, etc. etc.

It is a no win situation, you can't please everyone, and there will always be fans and whiners. Personally, i'd rather see the more positive side of things, and if you are doom scrolling, or trolling, i'd say your time would be better spent actually playing or practicing your instrument then spending hours bitching about a pedal - hell even go read a book, learn something new. I mean really think how much wasted time people spend spewing negativity online, and what constructive things they could do with their time if they chose to do something more productive in the end.
This is well said, and supported with thoughtful examples. But the internet being foolish/wrong doesn't make everything Spencer has done wise/right.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with the 'you cant please everyone' sentiment but disagree with it being a 'no win situation' for Spencer... I mean, he sells out within minutes of every pedal drop & managed to offload a bunch of preamps that werent moving by using the pedal demand to his advantage... he's winning in that regard & he clearly doesnt care about people's feelings about his buisness practices as evident in his 'complainers in shambles' comment so there's no loss there. Plus, I'm sure the people who did go for the pedal/preamp bundle are at least content if not happy with their purchase otherwise they wouldn't have bought it so that's a win/win for merchant/customer. The only people who lose in this scenario are the ones that missed out on the drop but there will be more in the future & in the meantime there are plenty of other octave pedals on the market.
 
“Complainers in shambles” was clearly a clown move, IMO. He thinks he is funny. Says a lot about the guy. The thing is, his product can withstand his questionable attitude- it wont make a dent in his bottom line. In a way, it reminds me of what Apple does to its customers; built in battery lifetime issues, different chargers for no reason other than to require customers buy new ones, still they remain the most profitable company on the planet. People camp out in front of stores to buy their newest release(s). Questionable ethics and attitudes toward consumers mean little if you make a better mousetrap. I loathe the Apple corporation with a passion, yet i am using an iPad right now.
 
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I used Apple products for a long time, but when my Powerbook Ti became unupdateable and obsolete, I walked away. The cost of replacing it was ludicrous, so I switched to PCs and Android. Haven't looked back aside from wishing I had access to Logic.

Some are doing that with 3Leaf, but as with Apple, it won't hurt the bottom line at all.
 
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I used Apple products for a long time, but when my Powerbook Ti became unupdateable and obsolete, I walked away. The cost of replacing it was ludicrous, so I switched to PCs and Android. Haven't looked back aside from wishing I had access to Logic.

Some are doing that with 3Leaf, but as with Apple, it won't hurt the bottom line at all.
My father passed away in 2020, and his new iPhone was passed on to me. Unfortunately, we couldn’t figure out his Apple password. A family friend used to work for Apple in a fairly big way- he was an engineer and had a fair amount of clout. Over 40 hours went into tryna figure out what his password was. Long story short, Apple refused to release his password. I seriously considered throwing the thing through one of their big plate glass windows, right through their logo, did not care about the consequences. I bet they would release the password then.
 
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My father passed away in 2020, and his new iPhone was passed on to me. Unfortunately, we couldn’t figure out his Apple password. A family friend used to work for Apple in a fairly big way- he was an engineer and had a fair amount of clout. Over 40 hours went into tryna figure out what his password was. Long story short, Apple refused to release his password. I seriously considered throwing the thing through one of their big plate glass windows, right through their logo, did not care about the consequences. I bet they would release the password then.

Apple's Digital passwords don't work that way. They are one way encrypted. Apple can't see what the password is. This is the way all enterprise level systems should work. They could possibly reset it, depending on various laws, but they can't "release the password" - it is not stored in plain text where you can see the password. If the password was stored this way it would be a huge security issue if the password file was ever stolen.

Edit:

See the following about one way password encryption and how it works:
One-way encryption - Citizendium

And here is Apple's page on accessing someones account once they have passed (condolences btw - I have been through that a number of years ago, but was lucky my father wasn't into any tech at all).
How to request access to a deceased family member’s Apple account

But you would have to reset the password, and make your own new one, as Apple can't "see" the password to give it to you. This is how good security should be operating.
 
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Apple's Digital passwords don't work that way. They are one way encrypted. Apple can't see what the password is. This is the way all enterprise level systems should work. They could possibly reset it, depending on various laws, but they can't "release the password" - it is not stored in plain text where you can see the password. If the password was stored this way it would be a huge security issue if the password file was ever stolen.
My syntax is off. Poor word choice. They would not reset it, never offered. They wanted his death certificate. We found that unacceptable on a number of levels.
 
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My syntax is off. Poor word choice. They would not reset it, never offered. They wanted his death certificate. We found that unacceptable on a number of levels.

Fair enough. Unfortunately that is the way they can cover themselves legally, and it is not just Apple that asks for it, banks and many institutions do. I had a workplace ask me for my fathers death certificate in relation to time off. It is totally shirty, especially when you are going through a lot and IMHO they can look in the paper at the death notice FFS (in relation to a workplace). But now we are way off topic here. :)
 
Ihe clearly doesnt care about people's feelings about his buisness practices as evident in his 'complainers in shambles' comment so there's no loss there

But it's totally cool for people to call him names and bad-mouth him on a website because they are sad that they didn't get to buy an octave pedal, right? I mean, who cares about his feelings.
 
But it's totally cool for people to call him names and bad-mouth him on a website because they are sad that they didn't get to buy an octave pedal, right? I mean, who cares about his feelings.

Well, to the degree that he is, he is a public figure. Comes with the territory, number one, and number two, I don't think an argument that he's blameless holds much water. Never read the comments, right? Don't poke the bear? Usually solid advice. Seems as though he's done both, with predictable results. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Anyhow, his products will continue to sell out immediately, so whatevs.
 
But it's totally cool for people to call him names and bad-mouth him on a website because they are sad that they didn't get to buy an octave pedal, right? I mean, who cares about his feelings.

I didn't say it was 'cool for people to call him names' & actually went on to express why I dont think it makes sense to be upset in the first place but people are going to have their opinions & feelings regardless & this is a place to vent & air out thier grievances if you don't care to entertain peoples thoughts & feelings on the matter youre free to ignore it or talk about something else. Complaining about people complaining is pretty silly dont you think?
 
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But it's totally cool for people to call him names and bad-mouth him on a website because they are sad that they didn't get to buy an octave pedal, right? I mean, who cares about his feelings.
I think there are some that are getting too fixated on the more superfluous extremes of the situation. I feel the general consensus is more mild confusion then anything. To go from "To avoid the release selling out in 10 seconds..." to "WOW. Both bundles sold out instantly. Complainers in shambles." - it's just kind of odd, I guess. Internet is gonna internet either way. I read it as Spencer just trying to push some old inventory, which I don't have any personal feelings about in whichever way other's have been expressing.
 
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I haven't seen any name calling, maybe I missed it though. The mentality is just amazing. People will do what they will do - obvious, and he is running a business, most likely to make money, primarily. Its also perfectly ok to disagree with the way he does it, just as he has free roam to run his biz the way he sees fit, so do we have the floor to express our opinions, here, in this public forum.

I really just don't understand why anyone would defend this type of sales method though. Again I say, who here (be honest) was planning on, or even contemplating buying a preamp at the same time as a octave? knowing what that entails during checkout should already answer that, but even if you bought one today and caught the drop another, anyone?

If no one planned on spending another 222$, how is this not an insult as a customer/end user? who cares why he did it, that wasn't explained so we have nothing to go on, except for we need 222 more bones to achieve what we assumed the day before would only cost 333$.. Forget the web posted comment all together, just the explanation of the "new" price. Imagine he continues to do things like this, is it still ok? Do I need to setup another "cookie jar" to save up for "Spencer's incidentals" along side what price is posted? I understand the whole "if you need to ask, you can't afford it" concept, but is it cool to just hand the man our wallet or blank check? That sounds like the beginning of a $800 obo D2 conversation if you ask me.

I'm not primarily complaining about this particular sale really, but the fact that he seemingly sees this as a success, and then in turn a good deal of people here see no problem with this "method". I really really hope this type of surprise doesn't continue
 
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