'66 dot/bound J tribute

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by JIO, Aug 8, 2013.


  1. I am happy to be a part of your "NO HATE zone." Sorry for the thread hijack; I didn't realize that my bass render would take up the entire browser window space (I thought it would at least appropriately resize itself).

    Carry on, kind sir.
     
  2. ROOTSnFIFTHS

    ROOTSnFIFTHS Low-end Lover since '78!

    Oct 25, 2012
    NJ to Sin City
    Outstanding! Great concept and beautiful bass.

    I am in the middle of building one (Precision bass) right now and I can so relate to the tortoise pickguard issue. Been through 3 myself and finally settled. Now you have me thinking about the Spitfire...hmmm.

    Again great looking Jazz and best of luck with 'her'.
     
    JIO likes this.
  3. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Nice! Let me know when you're done and hopefully you'll post pics somewhere.(P-bass club?)

    Yes, Mark's work is excellent! The colour is really rich/deep - you won't find anything, even the overpriced 60'as vintage pg's that come close.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  4. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Here's a shot in bright sunlight which really shows off the pg.

    IMG_6554_zps1996257c.jpg
     
    dfp, sneha1965 and TomB like this.
  5. That body is dying for a nitro refin! I forgot are the headstock and neck finished in nitro?
     
  6. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars
    Why would you remove a perfectly good finish and replace it with a lower quality finish.
     
  7. Authenticity. Also nitro ages quite beautifully.
     
  8. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars
    One mans beauty is one mans flawed finish I guess. I think whatever finish is on the bass now is absolutely perfect.
     
  9. Must resist... can't. Failed.

    So... as far as authenticity is concerned.... nitro doesn't get it for an Olympic White mid 60's finish according to this article which blows my mind for is research depth.

    http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html

    Regardless, this build is gorgeous and needs no refinish.
     
  10. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Thanks for your input - I love the Ivan so no malice taken - no.., no plans for a refinish on the body. In fact, my plan was to build up this bass as if it were brand new. (no aging or distressing) I've already made non-authentic concessions using split-coil pu's (but they are Fender!) and a bone nut, so not so much a replica - more of a "tribute". (and a fantastic player!) Thanks to Deep Cat for the link on guitar/car finishing through the decades. As a painter I'm well aware of this valuable in-depth source of information - it does boggle the mind! Pat Wilkins did the neck (vintage tint), and I didn't specify nitro so I assume it's a poly-acrylic and it's awesome. The body is a 2012 MIM Fender so also poly-acrylic. I love authenticity, but in this case didn't want to be slave to it. As in, if it were authentic - I'd have incorporated the exterior neck-pocket 'hump' that was part of the manufacturing process. And the 'crease' that a '66 bridge plate would have had. Not to mention the 'Fender' stamped tuner plates.

    A strict replica would be a challenge and it could be done - but all things considered I'm well pleased w/the result. What I've learned through the process is that incorporating current masters of their craft, like Dan Ransom, Pat Wilkins and Mark Townsend - something based on a mass produced classic filled w/mystique can be even more special focused into a contemporary tribute. A bass starting off this good can only get better w/age (playing and sounding- regardless of 'aging') which is the main reason we are drawn to these iconic instruments isn't it?
     
    Deep Cat likes this.
  11. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    I finished this build in Oct 2013. Since then I've joined Bond Girl (fb link below) and it's become my go-to 'spy' bass. Recently I installed the passive Santellan Sounds Elek-Trix harness (love it!) and it sounds perfect for my BG needs. However, after many 3 hr rehearsals and a few shows the 10 lb weight is showing itself to be an issue. (shoulder pain!) My ideal bass weight is anywhere 8 to 9 lbs, preferably 8.5 or under. The weight is mostly in the heavy alder Fender 2012 MIM body. Soooo… my final refocus of this fine bass will be to make a period-correct (60's pu spacing) J body of roasted wood. Roasting wood creates a stable wood resistant to humidity and temperature changes and vibrational testing indicates it has a clearer tone. And, most importantly in my case - in the roasting process moisture is extracted out of the wood resulting in a substantially lighter slab. I found a source on-line; Welcome to Best Guitar Parts - The Best Parts at the Best Prices for roasted ash. The ash would come in at 3.5 - 4 lbs cut-out (to Jazz shape) which is 'music' to my ears! I ordering a 1.5" slab to slim it and further skim-off weight. (typical J is 1-3/4") My goal would be to hit 8.5 lbs completed. Ash, especially roasted ash will tend to cut through a bit more in the mix which would work in the band context as well. And.., it will be finished in trad (trans) blond. "But Geo, Fender didn't do blond ash bodied J's in 1966"... well, I just saw these pics of a super-cool dot/bound/pops '66 J with a rare ash/blond finish which looks out-of-the-park awesome! It is exactly what the doctor ordered! Stay tuned for the body-build once the wood arrives!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
    sneha1965 and mapleglo like this.
  12. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    From the link posted by Deep Cat above Antique Vintage Guitars collector info - collecting old VINTAGE GUITARS I don't know if I want to do this myself, but it's good to know how it's done. I'll want the '55-'59 Tele version (mentioned below) w/more opaque edges,

    Reproducing a Fender "Blond" Finish.


    You can't buy a blond Fender finish pre-mixed. You must "hand mix" it. This is how I do a blond finish.
    1. Finish sand the ASH body (yes, it must be Ash, otherwise the finish won't look right no matter how good a job you do!). Sand progressively up to 320 or 400 grit sandpaper.
    2. (Optional, but suggested). Spray one "wash coat" of clear nitrocellulose lacquer or sanding sealer on the body to seal it. lightly sand with 400 after dry. I personally use sanding sealer as it's cheaper than lacquer, and sands easier.
    3. PORE FILL the body. Stew Mac (stewmac.com or stewmac.com sells pore filler. I use the "natural" color. Brush the stuff on, let it dry for 30 minutes (or until the thick pore filler has gotten firm), then use an old credit card to "wipe" the pore filler off the body. This leaves the pore filler in the pores of the wood. Let the body dry for 48 hours.
    4. Clear coat with nitrocellulose lacquer or sanding sealer (again, I prefer sanding sealer). This will lock-in the pore filler. Spray about four coats. After all 4 coats were srayed and dry for a day or two, sand smooth with 600 grit. If I "broke through" the clear finish above from sanding, I would spray one more coat of clear lacquer or sanding sealer. Note I would NOT sand between coats after this point. The body should be nice and smooth.
    5. Now comes the fun. Take some WHITE nitrocellulose lacquer, and mix it about 1:10 with clear lacquer. Spray on a board to test, and adjust the amount of white or clear to get a good translucent color. After you got that figured out, spray the body. DO NOT SPRAY HEAVY! Remember, you want the finish to be translucent! If you are doing a 1955 to 1959 Telecaster blond finish, note the SIDES of the body are LESS translucent than the face and back of the body! (i.e. spray more white finish on the sides).
    6. Let the body dry a day. Spray ONE coat of clear lacquer to lock in the white translucent finish.
    7. Aging the finish: the body will be really "white". You may want to make it look a bit old. if you are doing a 1954 or earlier Telecaster finish, this is where you get that "butterscotch" look. Use a small amount of yellow liquid ainline dye, and add it to some clear lacquer. Also add just a TOUCH of red and brown. Spray the lacquer on your test board (that you used for the white translucent paint above), and adjust the color. You want a clear lacquer that has an "old" tint to it. After you have that set, LIGHTLY spray the body. How much you spray will depend on your eye, and if you want that butterscotch look, or the 1960's and later style Tele translucent look. IMPORTANT: if you are doing a 1955 to 1959 tele finish, SKIP this step! The next step of spraying the clear nitrocellulose lacquer will "take the white edge" off the finish enough.
    8. Spray four coats of clear nitrocellulose lacquer on the body.
    9. Let dry for two to four weeks. Rub out with 600 grit, then 1200, then 2000 grit. Be carful when sanding, especially on the body edges!!! You do not want to "break through" the new finish.
    10. Rub out the body using rubbing compound, then polishing compound. Personally I like using Novus3 then Novus2 for these steps if you are rubbing the body out by hand.
    Other tips: I use straight ACETONE as my thinner for lacquer. You will get much better lacquer dry times with this. If the lacquer is drying too fast with acetone while you are spraying, add some lacquer retarder. I also always add a sqirt of "smoothie" (available at automotive paint stores) to a mixed quart of lacquer or sanding sealer to prevent "fish eyes", and to generally make the finish a bit smoother.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
    mapleglo likes this.
  13. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Got the roasted ash today. It's very aromatic (smells… roasted!) and as they specified it's about 9lbs for a 2 piece slab 22-3/4" X 15" X 1.5".

    I've seen such on another thread but can't seem to run it down right now - does anyone have a link that shows the outline and pu/bridge/neck pocket/rear scallop position for an early 60's J? And, once accessed, how does one translate that to a scale copy? (Kinko's/Fed Ex?)

    update; found a few for sale and will probably go my own route of tracing and measuring. It will be close enough and unique in the long-run. I would have used a guide more as a comparison anyway.

    IMG_7687_zpsaeb5w89w.jpg

    IMG_7688_zpsgfcrri3m.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  14. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    This late '66 alder Mary Kaye J is on ebay right now for a.., chunk of change. (22K) Lovely regardless - like an overpriced bar of white chocolate. I don't care for gold or white chocolate much, but I was at a loss for a 'sweet' analogy... I'll want my blond more in the Oly white camp and not reflecting this 'yellowed' version. (it's cool, just not what I'm after-it does work well w/gold) The pic of the back reminded me to include the small router 'hump' on the bottom-left of the neck-pocket. Details, details...

    $(KGrHqNHJEgFI-j3HVl3BSPpYo2GJQ~~60_57.jpg

    $(KGrHqRHJDoFI9Tp9M6nBSPpZYUj+w~~60_57.jpg

    $T2eC16hHJGUFFh8dHd(sBSPpY7LG7Q~~60_57.jpg
     
  15. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    All ready to cut and rout. It was interesting attempting to recreate a body that has such a rich history being that specific shape. I could have popped for someone else's outlines, either CAD or by hand. I found both for sale on ebay for around $20 (on paper) and hard templates from $35-$65. I actually prefer doing it myself by hand/eye/measurements. I went from the one on it now, a Fender MIM from 2012. Various tricks on how to make sure it's accurate need to be employed because there's not a 'hard' edge on it. (a '51 P would be easy!) Cross referencing becomes critical. Of douse the most important measurements are the bridge, pu's and neck pocket - they have to be spot-on. I'll rout first and then cut the body shape. The exterior curves can be 'close enough for Jazz' as my classical musician friends always say, and in this case they are doubly correct!

    It is hard to see the tracing (pencil/pen) because of the darkened wood, but it gives an idea of how the grain will look under the trans white.

    IMG_7689_zpslaqqpo65.jpg
     
    Rano Bass likes this.
  16. Basshappi

    Basshappi

    Feb 12, 2007
    Tucson,AZ
    Oh my!
     
  17. mapleglo

    mapleglo Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2013
    phoenix, az
    It'a good to see you back in the Luthier's Corner JIO! Looking forward to this one.
     
  18. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Thanks MG - I hope to be haunting this fine corner with a couple of my updates. My SuperB 5'r neck is a bit overdue from Dan, but I don't like pressuring him. I know when I'm pressured I risk compromising quality. The 5'r will happen eventually but I'm putting this project on the front burner because I want to get my 'show' bass in line with my immediate needs - a lighter and more focused J with the fringe benefit of looking awesome(r)! :thumbsup:
     
    mapleglo likes this.
  19. TomB

    TomB Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2007
    Vermont
    JIO, if you do wish to check any measurements, my '63 J (the Eddie Taylor bass) is sitting to my immediate left. ...don't hesitate to ask, though be forewarned I don't have calipers handy, only a tape measure. Good luck! Tom
     
    JIO likes this.
  20. JIO

    JIO Connery... Sean Connery Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 30, 2010
    The Mission SF/CA
    musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
    Thanks Tom - nice to hear from you! I'm pretty much there and will accept falling short of being too exacting - as long as the numbers line up I'll be happy. But while you're offering, how much does your '63 weigh?
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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