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A "Metal Fender" discussion

#22
i think the spirit behind punk and metal has been do what you want

if doing what you want means playing cheap trick covers at the local watering hole on tuesday nights with a p bass then thats great

or if you want to be some super underground prog metal hardcore band and you play a zon and use 14 pedals then also great

i think using whatever instrument(s) you want and playing what you want whether its popular or not is the idea
 
#24
Gojiras, sorry to say that, but as a huge metalhead (over 130 Gb or metal mp3's) and a gear whore, I cannot say how much I disagree with you. You don't have ANY idea of what is metal today and how it's a more refined art than it was. Before, like you said, metal was all about NWOBHM, but now there are so many styles of metal. Like Rock started out from blues, it got into diverse paths like punk/metal/hard rock/progressive/fusion/experimental/etc... With the computers, it is now cheap for unsuccesful artists to record from their home with a great audio quality, and coupled with internet (metal is the most downloaded music on the internet) that made the metal sub genre explosion we now have. In other words, it's easier for stylistic innovators of metal to record their stuff and get known. Most metal bands do not live from their music, and simply play for the music, the art. They don't care that much if they make money or not, they just want to play THEIR songs, being original.

Sure, inbred metal isn't a good thing (if you consider inbred metals like younger copycats of old school bands), but when Cynic released their album "Focus" back in 1993, the world wasn't ready for it () or the dude in Gojira. When they have the frequency space necessary to be heard, it is a great tone.

Remember, progress is a normal thing. It's normal the style changed and it's normal that the bassists and their gear changed too. Face it. Saying metal was dead in '81 is just plain ignorance and non acceptance of change. It's like when people said Rock died with the Beatles. Metal was just a child in those years. You can either try to continue to live in the past, or embrace originality in new stylistic directions that metal explores.

P.S.: The first ever band to be called "heavy metal" was SteppenWolf, which I don't consider to be metal.
 
#25
I'm an old metal head, too.

I just saw Mastodon with Dethklok (Keneally is the best!). I have the new Mastodon album which is quite good.They played the whole album. Then they played every other song they had ever written. Then they played every song they had ever heard. I think they played for 17 hours, I'm not sure. It was about 4 hours in that I realized they were Boston.

Are you sure you're not confusing the Steppenwolf story with the "Steppenwolf were the first band to use the words 'heavy metal' in a song" story? They were called 'Heavy Metal' by whom and when? It's important to the story. Did kids say, "I'm going to a heavy metal show" when they were leaving for Steppenwolf?
 
#32
This thread is akin to arguing how many angels can dance on the point of a needle. Sound is sound and people always played what they had available to them for either price or availability.

Any argument for high mids (cutting through the mix) points to passive vs active basses. Beyond that it's about style, not Fender vs the World.

I can't tell you how many top live shows I saw in the '60s and '70s where I couldn't hear the bass. All passive back then.
 
#33
Gojiras_Hejira said:
I'm an old metal head, too.

I just saw Mastodon with Dethklok (Keneally is the best!). I have the new Mastodon album which is quite good.They played the whole album. Then they played every other song they had ever written. Then they played every song they had ever heard. I think they played for 17 hours, I'm not sure. It was about 4 hours in that I realized they were Boston.

Are you sure you're not confusing the Steppenwolf story with the "Steppenwolf were the first band to use the words 'heavy metal' in a song" story? They were called 'Heavy Metal' by whom and when? It's important to the story. Did kids say, "I'm going to a heavy metal show" when they were leaving for Steppenwolf?
Click to expand...

you're right, dug up "Metal - a headbanger's journey", and it was Alice Cooper in Rolling Stone magazine (8 minutes in it) the first ever band to be called heavy metal, and Steppenwolf used the word heavy metal in a song.
 
#34
Gojiras_Hejira said:
High on Fire and Converge were with them, also good bands. I don't recall any Fenders, but then, heavy metal is dark and often foggy (smoke machines). Does the Mastodon guy play a Fender? Maybe the Converge guy did.

~Jimm
Click to expand...

Troy_Sanders,_Mastodon_(2).jpg
 
#35
Gojiras_Hejira said:
Fenders are the standard for the instrument and very common and very loved. Punk and metal are the genres that are the ones that are most "selling rebellion". Of course they shun the "norm". As indicated by the original post, there is an observable disparity in the occurrence of Fenders in these genres. I think there are valid considerations of psychology here.

Also, I consider the age of Metal to be 1976-81.
In any genre, you have brief underground beginnings. Iron Maiden did not grow up listening to heavy metal. It didn't exist. They grew up listening to Tull, Yes, The Who,Hendrix, Cream and Wishbone Ash. Sabbath and Purple and Blue Cheer were not considered 'Metal'.

As soon as you have people making Heavy metal bands because they grew up listening to heavy metal bands, the genre is inbred and wrecked and creatively watered down. The same is true of genres in any art form- painting, writing, photography, etc...

So after 1981 (coincidentally about the time Mtv appeared?), people were making Radio-friendly and Mtv-friendly metal. It was more about appearance than sound. Even the supposed anti-Mtv bands (still, just a backlash) were dressing up.

Look at the people who made heavy metal, Steve Harris, Burke Shelley, Bob Daisley, maybe Phil Lynot... back when the only "image" of Heavy Metal was jeans, a t-shirt and long hair- everyone played Fenders. Only Lemmy always played a Rick and Hawkwind were definitely not metal. Quick- one of you Priest fans find a concert picture of Ian Hill in 1974 or 76 and tell me what he's playing? Then show me a picture of him after Mtv appeared.

You wanna talk sound? Before "crunch" pedals, you only needed a Fender and an over-driven tube amp. Again, once gear was created to give you the "metal sound" - it was already over.

What do you think of that?

~Jimm
Click to expand...

While you do indeed have some valid points here......what most everyone is forgetting is the availability factor...

Though Wayne Charvel was custom making guitars in southern California it wasn't until 1978 when he sold the company to Grover Jackson that most of the designs became widely available to the general public and it really wasn't until 1986 that they became widely popular...

Even though the Rico Family were building custom guitars from the late 60's it wasn't until 78 when most of their most popular designs really hit the market...and due to their unusual shapes seemed to be more suited to the speed or black metal movement that was starting to emerge and it really wasn't until the mid 80's when they moved some mass production over to Korea and Japan thet they became widely available and affordable to the general public...

Ibanez started just after the turn of the century.....but through the 60's and 70's they simply made copies of what was alrfeady available (Fender and Gibson). It wasn't until 1978 after the "Big Lawsuit" that Hoshino Gakki the man in control at that time decided to concentrate on original models..and once again it was the early to mid 80's that these designs started to catch on and become widely accepted and available to the general consumer

E.S.P (Electric Sound Products) started simply making replacement parts for guitars and basses that were already being built (Aftermarket replacements) around 1975 and it really wasn't until the early 80's when they got a contract to build bodies and necks for Kramer that they launched their own lines....and it really wasn't until 1986 when George Lynch walked into the ESP shop for a replacement neck thet the rest of the world discovered them.....and it really wasn't until 1990 they they became widely available to the public

Kramer wasn't in operation until 1976 and were fairly well known on the east cost for their aluminum necks and ebonol fretboards...and it was just by chance that Eddie Van Halen ran into Dennis Berardi on an airplane who heard Eddie bitching about (Floyd Rose) their not being a decent tremolo that would stay in tune that Kramer guitars really took off.....and Not till 1983 did the company really start to make a ripple in the industry

Hamer put it first major offering out in 1974, but it really wasn't until 1980 when they moved the production to Chicago that they really started to take off (with help from Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick) along with the fact that the Cruisebass was a bit of a hit

i could keep going with every other manufacturer....but history shows us that basically up until the mid to late 1970's they availability of electric basses in the music industry was fairly relegated to:

Fender
Gibson
Rickenbacker

and yes there were other companies out there....and yes I'm over generalizing here,....but when it came down to being able to find replacement parts or being able to walk into a store and buy an immediate replacement....the big three were basically what you had to choose from.....so is it any wonder that we really didn't see many other brands being used on a large scale until the 80's? well simply put NO....

not to mention....with the advent of MTV and the music video the industry would be forever changed

Fender opened the door there is no doubt....but it was simply a matter of timing and being in the right place at the right time with what was happening in America at the time (Elvis Aaron Presley) and being able to meet the production demand for quality electric guitars and basses.

I'm not a Fender guy.... (and I'm not a Fender guy because they were shoved down my throat by a jerk off band leader in school band) however if that was the only basic choice i had to play....I also would be playing them.

on a personal note the explosion of new companies in the late 70's and early 80's in my mind was the direct result and response to/of the consumer and musicians wanting something different/alternative to the so called industry standard...

ok i typed my two cents worth and i reserve the right to edit this post at a later date (as i'm sure it is full of typos)
 
#36
i think it's fairly silly to generalize such a huge group of people.
i doubt steve digiorgio's choice to not use a P bass into an SVT was an attempt at anything other than sounding like he wanted to sound.
likewise, cliff burton's use of the aria likely had more appeal to him than "not being a fender."
finally, a lot of bands (even today) start with fenders because they are priced reasonably, are widely available (and known), and are easy to figure out.
however, by the time a band gets to the level of being on tv or even just well-known on the touring circuit, they can often afford (or are simply given) much higher-end and customized stuff.
i love jazz basses, but if somehow i became a "successful professional" bassist and a rickenbacker rep called me about using their gear, i'd probably pass out from excitement.
 
#37
also, as much as i love fenders, it totally sucks to go into a store or look at an online site and see fifty brands of electric guitar and only fenders, fake fenders, fake gibsons, and one ric that they can't even show the price of.
and the ubiquity of the fender has made it possible for their products to get much suckier over time - if you ask me, the quality fender basses has suffered due to their popularity. the more competition, the better for us schmoes.
 

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