I agree. While the OP has legitimate complaints, I thought it ws in poor taste to take it public so soon. I`ve been on both sides of this dilemma, so I know how hard it can be for both parties who want to do right by the other.
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A purchase with issues
- Thread starter thomasjbass
- Start date
You can always purchase additional coverage that goes up to the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I have removed the original thread as I would to avoid any more personal issues regarding myself and the seller. I should have not put his information on the thread. I regret doing so.
I do not however regret posting the thread itself as I feel many have learned from this unfortunate experience.
I do not however regret posting the thread itself as I feel many have learned from this unfortunate experience.
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
If you search the luthier forum you will see a couple of threads having to do with ebony cracking under certain conditions and the crack that you posted is quite small compared to those discussed and looks like it can easily be "fixed" and is just cosmetic. I can see why the builder wouldn't consider replacing the fingerboard perhaps you should ask him how he can correct it which will give rise to a different answer if you're interested in keeping the bass, additionally your "tech guy" should be able to fix it easily(glue and ebony wood powder) and should have also explained to you how minor an issue it was.
There's a lot of information available on this forum and the seller posted a link to his video channel that provided a lot of information about the bass unfortunately you didn't view the video about the history of the bass until others here pointed it out as if the seller was trying to hide that information.
I think the thing to be learned here is to not rush to judgment which is what happened here and to do more research so that one is better informed.
The seller's character IMO WAS defamed and that's not cool.
i appreciate and respect your opinion Phil. This is why I removed his information from the thread.
To be clear however, the replacement of the fretboard was the idea of the seller and not my own. In addition, I didn't search through every video on the sellers channel. I watched the video that initially came up and that was it.
Obviously others in the forum see my side of the story, and it was never my intention to defame his character. Obviously, since I apologized publicly and on a private PM.
I respect ever person's opinion here whether I agree with them or not. This is a public forum for a reason and haven't argued a single response on here. We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect everyone one of them. Everything that I have posted here was fact, and all I asked for was opinions. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. I didn't ask for opinions that agreed with me, I asked for opinions. If everyone would have said "Thomas your out of your mind, your crazy. Just get the bass repaired and deal with it" I would have. However, I was contacted and supported by so many other TB members that I realized that I don't think I am being unreasonable to ask what I have asked for.
Thank you everyone for your opinions. I appreciate all of the feedback.
To be clear however, the replacement of the fretboard was the idea of the seller and not my own. In addition, I didn't search through every video on the sellers channel. I watched the video that initially came up and that was it.
Obviously others in the forum see my side of the story, and it was never my intention to defame his character. Obviously, since I apologized publicly and on a private PM.
I respect ever person's opinion here whether I agree with them or not. This is a public forum for a reason and haven't argued a single response on here. We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect everyone one of them. Everything that I have posted here was fact, and all I asked for was opinions. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. I didn't ask for opinions that agreed with me, I asked for opinions. If everyone would have said "Thomas your out of your mind, your crazy. Just get the bass repaired and deal with it" I would have. However, I was contacted and supported by so many other TB members that I realized that I don't think I am being unreasonable to ask what I have asked for.
Thank you everyone for your opinions. I appreciate all of the feedback.
Id diff go after refund for false advertising on sellers part. The fretboard crack by itself if full grounds for refund. If seller persists he cant give refund cause has spent the money, Id out him on the forum and take any other possible action against them legally.
That's cool. It's ok to be wrong.
I think the real problem came in when the seller was identified in the thread. He was proven guilty without us even knowing the other side.
I agree with you. Packages always need to be insure for the amount that the product costs.
Well, it can add up fast on you. Especially on a 2600 dollar item, however, I think it can pay off in the long run. Insurance is something that you never think you'll need but you do as soon as you don't have it.
I think starting the thread would have been ok. It was when the seller became known that the problem occurred IMO.
I think that was a classy thing to do.
And on the topic of Ebony. From what I know it is a hard wood to work with and it's hard to find "stable" choices compared to other fingerboard woods.
1. I doubt that crack effects the playability of the bass.
2. Posting the link to the original thread before resolving the situation was tacky.
3. The fact that the buyer invoked the nuclear option makes me very sympathetic to the seller, based on what I have read in this thread.
2. Posting the link to the original thread before resolving the situation was tacky.
3. The fact that the buyer invoked the nuclear option makes me very sympathetic to the seller, based on what I have read in this thread.
It's really the buyers responsibility to determine if the item is worth the money that they are paying for it. If you can't physically inspect a bass, then you should as part of your deal have the option to return for a full refund if it doesn't meet your expectations. You should also get detailed pictures that cover every part of the bass in situations where you can't physically inspect the instrument and that means high resolution images of every part of the bass that enables you to "zoom in" and inspect things.
Personally, at $2,600 that bass is way overpriced.
Surprisingly, I find myself disagreeing with this.
While sellers should be fully honest and forward about the condition of a bass, I would not see it as their responsibility to do refunds. There has to be some responsibility on the buyer to ask for more details, pictures, what-have-yous to better determine whether or not they wish to spend money on the instrument in question. What the seller might honestly see as normal wear and tear, a buyer might see as horrendous damage. There has to be some back and forth in a situation like this.
Life is short, if you like the bass other than the problems, get them fixed at the sellers cost, he can file an insurance claim to try to recoup his costs.
At the same time, ask the seller for a refund equal to the difference of what you paid and what a bass with those repairs would be worth, and be fair. It probably wouldn't have made a huge difference price wise if it was cracked and repaired in the original listing. When you looked at the repaired pictures in the post, you might have thought, "Looks great, no biggie".
You could have bought it perfect and two months from now the problem with the neck could occur, what would you do then? If you loved the bass, you'd get it fixed and keep playing it without a care.
Only you know what is right for you...DTRT
At the same time, ask the seller for a refund equal to the difference of what you paid and what a bass with those repairs would be worth, and be fair. It probably wouldn't have made a huge difference price wise if it was cracked and repaired in the original listing. When you looked at the repaired pictures in the post, you might have thought, "Looks great, no biggie".
You could have bought it perfect and two months from now the problem with the neck could occur, what would you do then? If you loved the bass, you'd get it fixed and keep playing it without a care.
Only you know what is right for you...DTRT
Completely agree. Also, offering refunds can bite you in the @$$ if you're not careful. I've had guys return a bass because I've said "full refund if you are not happy". They would get the bass and after playing it a day they would return it because it wasn't what they hoped it would be even though there was NOTHING wrong with the bass. Basically they borrowed the bass.
"Hey man, this is a great bass...but I don't think it's for me."
If nothing else, this thread has shown that there is a clear division of thought between many TB members. Although in the topic forums I believe this is what makes this such as awesome forum to speak freely and express your thoughts, opinions, etc., I have learned from this experience in the classified ads you can never be to careful or ask too many questions. Use YouTube, Google, Facebook, Learngospelmusic.com, and Myspace.com, as well as many other social sites; you have to do your own due diligence on the equipment, the seller and/or buyer, and every single detail that is both seen and unknown. If this thread helps one buyer not experience the same situation then I hope that helps.
I had a bad trade experience on here, the bass that I received had significant problems that were in no way revealed by the seller even though I asked the necessary questions. Within 2 days of receiving my bass, I asked the seller to return my original bass to me and that I would in turn return his bass to him and that I would pay for return shipping on BOTH instruments. I was told by the seller to "quit crying and grow up." Clearly, I had been taken. I have since had nothing but great experiences with trades, sales and purchases. This place survives on the ethics of the people who use it. As with any free market, bad sellers will eventually be run off and the strong will survive.
I disagree. The old school caveat emptor conventions change when the buyer has no opportunity to handle the item prior to purchase.
Internet seller responsibility is to clearly disclose all defects in the ad. Also, it is seller responsibility (and risk) to make sure the stated condition is upon receipt by the buyer. The seller must be held responsible for properly packing, tracking and insuring because they are the party in direct control of those protections.
Also, in the case of undisclosed defects, it should be the buyers decision whether to return or repair. This is because the buyer did not intend to buy a repaired, broken bass; and shouldnt be forced to do so.
Also, because undisclosed defects are a seller default, the seller should be responsible for reimbursing the return shipment cost to the buyer. Otherwise, the buyer is forced to pay a penalty for a sellers inaccurate ad. This is also in line with product return conventions for mail order companies.
As far as I know, my thoughts are in line with eBay rules. Like them or not, eBay has had plenty of time to figure out a working protocol for internet sales of used items. Furthermore, eBay rules carry authority outside of eBay because they are so dominant in the used product industry.
Yeah, I used to offer full refunds less shipping if the buyer wasn't happy but I had a guy use that because he wanted to try a pedal he never got to play before. So I stopped offering that option. Of course I'll still work with someone if there's a problem but buyer's remorse isn't a problem, IMHO. I also keep the money in my PayPal account until the buyer either leaves feedback or gives me a "thanks" it arrived and works great email. But out of 50 or so transactions on Talkbass I've only had one that was less than exceptional.
