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A purchase with issues

#141
Good advice but not always possible. I purchased a bass from Japan about a year ago. A Fender PB70 in surf green which was not available in N. America and I really wanted it. Took a chance and was fortunate that it arrived exactly as the seller had described with no issues. For all the great transactions on TB it just takes hearing about one not so great one to spoil the bunch. Hope both buyer and seller can come to some sort of arrangement.
 
#142
thomasjbass said:
I just spoke with the US Attorney's office in Illinois and the assistant to Patrick Fitzgerald. I gave them a very basic rundown of the situation, and even mentioned some details about the seller that I have been given by a few others offline whom know this gentleman in the Chicago area through Gospel groups. They said that because he sold the item over state lines and committed petty "fraud" without full disclosure I would have a case against him. They also said I may want go the local route also, but they said that I should notify him immediately of these details as he may not know the full ramifications of his actions.

So, I am drafting a letter today to the US Attorney's office and to the local office to find my legal recourse from here. And once I hear back from the seller, I will make sure that I post in his feedback accordingly. I just want to do what is right.
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thomasjbass said:
...Per his email he is seeking legal council. Not really sure what for, but looks like I might have to go the same route.
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the first quote might be the reason the seller is seeking legal council. imo you should've tried to work it out with the seller before going public. it doesn't matter what the rest of members here think.
 
#143
Pickebass said:
I won't ask who the manufacturer is in a public forum, but their response concerns me more than the seller. If changing fretboards is somewhat regular, there are definitely some quality control issues. Hope you can get out of this OK.
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I believe this has more to do with indecisive customers changing their minds after the fact, than the actual structural integrity and craftsmanship of the bass. I now own 2 CallowHills and they're as well made (if not better) as any bass in the world.
 
#144
Simple solution
File a claim

Seller: I'm sorry I filed a claim, I'll refund you please send me back the bass. It will take me _____ days to do so. I'll refund ____ dollars immediatly and the balance in ____ days. Until then, check out the bass.

Buyer: Ok,
 
#145
thomasjbass said:
Per his email he is seeking legal council. Not really sure what for, but looks like I might have to go the same route.
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I may be in the minority here, but I believed his explanation. Granted, I`m not privy to all of the private conversation, so it`s a one-sided impression. And I understand his predicament; I sold an impeccable acoustic guitar to get bills paid about six months ago. Spent some of the dough immediately. I offered a three-day return window, but never dreamed anyone would return it - it was new old stock, hardly ever played. On the last day of the return window, the buyer contacts me wanting a refund because his "luthier" said the frets were worn. On a guitar I had since new, and sat in a closet it`s entire life. This guy probably felt the same way; he really didn`t see any defect in the bass, hence he spent the money. I can`t imagine trying to pass off a bass for that kind of money with a cracked board, and not expect there to be trouble. He`s been here for years, and has 100% feedback. Not saying you shouldn`t have been mad about the crack - I would have been too. But you DID come on here, name him, all but call him a liar (again, he may be - we didn`t communicate with him as you did), and threaten legal action and / or criminal charges. Now a solution has been worked out, the bass is going to get fixed, but you don`t understand why he`s mad ???
 
#146
JAUQO III-X said:
You have no idea at all how many customers were bombarding this luthier with pics request. And other time wasting bs. It got to the point that he was spending more time on the phone.


And the day of wanting progress pics is of a new customer culture that really amounts to nothing.


At the end of the day do you want a flawless bass coming from the luthier whom you've given your money to? Or time being taken away from getting your bass out to you in a timely manner? Obviously one would have to have trusted the luthier in the first place to give up the money to get things going.

There's nothing wrong with a pic here and there but at the end of the day luthiers should not offer progress pics.

And no I'm not being sarcastic.
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I'm not saying daily pics or anything, but i would want to see the occasional pic. That way I know it's flawless. I'm not as trusting with my money as some I guess. I'm trusting my money with the builder to get things going, sure. But it's not a blind trust, and even the best builders in any business can make a mistake. This seems like basic customer service to me. isn't that the point of a custom bass, to have one on one dealings with the builder?
 
#147
notverygood said:
I'm not saying daily pics or anything, but i would want to see the occasional pic. That way I know it's flawless. I'm not as trusting with my money as some I guess. I'm trusting my money with the builder to get things going, sure. But it's not a blind trust, and even the best builders in any business can make a mistake. This seems like basic customer service to me. isn't that the point of a custom bass, to have one on one dealings with the builder?
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Ask some of the founders of boutique bass building when this progress pic phenomenon started and see how they feel about it all.



Can any one pull up progress pics of the basses they had made throughout the 80's and up to about 97-98 when the need for progress pics started?


Progress pics really can't divulge much in regards to a flaw usually. The discovery of a flaw or flaws usually happen when the bass is in the purchasers hands.

And no I am not being sarcastic.
 
#148
Post some up close pics of the bass/fretboard crack for all to see. Lets get beyond words/descriptions and see what the "damage" is.

IME, lot of things happen when wood is shipped in an airplane that get to 45k feet. And the difference in temp between the seller, airplane and the buyer can cycle the wood through a lot of shrinking/expanding.

What's concerning is the shipping of a different gig bag with the bass. Why would the seller do that? That's called bait and switch.

Maybe some electronic damage happened along the way as well.

Seems to me that refund is in order or payment for repairs.

Explaining that the sales money was already spent is not relevant to the transaction.

I received a bass that was in dire need of a setup. The seller stated that it was fine when he sent it. He volunteered to pay for a tech to set it up. Which he did. That's that difficulty shipping wood across the country. Did it happen in transit? Probably.

Then again, major manufacturers ship basses all the time w/o a problem. Now what to do?
 
#149
JAUQO III-X said:
Ask some of the founders of boutique bass building when this progress pic phenomenon started and see how they feel about it all.



Can any one pull up progress pics of the basses they had made throughout the 80's and up to about 97-98 when the need for progress pics started?


Progress pics really can't divulge much in regards to a flaw usually. The discovery of a flaw or flaws usually happen when the bass is in the purchasers hands.

And no I am not being sarcastic.
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I just don't see it as unreasonable.
 
#150
notverygood said:
I just don't see it as unreasonable.
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A few pics maybe but pics of every aspect of the build even sometimes pics of the bass packed up and ready to go.


Let the luthier build the bass that the customer paid for, so that it gets out the shop on time and in perfect condition.


You got a luthier building 6 basses and 3 of those paying customers want a bunch of pics. Wonder how soon the other 3 customers that are patiently waiting for their bass get them?
 
#151
Understand I have zero desire to buy anything but the Ohio Players opener's hat online but I wonder.
As a community we shouldn't we police ourselves, agreeing not to spend the buyers loot until arrival in good condition is confirmed ?

Talk Bass code of ethics type thing ?
 
#152
KillianRussell said:
Understand I have zero desire to buy anything but the Ohio Players opener's hat online but I wonder.
As a community we shouldn't we police ourselves, agreeing not to spend the buyers loot until arrival in good condition is confirmed ?

Talk Bass code of ethics type thing ?
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Yeah, I wait. I know the day I don't is the day I have an unhappy buyer, or something gets damaged in shipping.
 
#153
Stumbo said:
Post some up close pics of the bass/fretboard crack for all to see. Lets get beyond words/descriptions and see what the "damage" is.
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I had posted a few of these pictures at the beginning of the forum, but here they are. Not the best quality shots, but I thought it would make the point I needed.

DSC_0124.gif


DSC_0126.gif


DSC_0125.gif


DSC_0127.gif
 
#155
Not to throw salt in a wound but i video any transaction i make and if i pack it I document that as well, otherwise it gets packaged by ups/fedex. I videotape every minuscule detail of a bass/guitar/amp etc just in case something like this happens I can show the evidence that it left in the condition stated. Pictures can have glare,poor angles etc. Video you can get pretty detailed with. Just my 2 cents. Hope both parties settle this peacefully.
 
#157
' Understand I have zero desire to buy anything but the Ohio Players opener's hat online but I wonder.
As a community we shouldn't we police ourselves, agreeing not to spend the buyers loot until arrival in good condition is confirmed ? Talk Bass code of ethics type thing ? '

Nice idea but impossible to do. You pay for my bass and the next day I get food poisoning and need to see a doctor but don't have healthcare insurance.... Bye bye bass bucks.
The more I read this story the more I think that there was right thing to do and a wrong thing to do. The right thing was refund the money. The wrong thing is everything that has gone on since......
 
#158
FWIW, the big issue seems to be....did the seller know that the ebony board had a crack before selling the bass? He said he didn't, and based on my own experiences with ebony, I believe him. I will reflect to my own personal experience.....

I've owned 8 basses with ebony boards. Two were purchased new, the others used. One of the used ones had lifted frets. I took it to the best luthier in the Detroit area. He said "that happens sometimes with ebony, especially if it experiences drastic climate changes". That bass had been shipped to me from New Orleans in mid winter.

Probably the most telling was a couple conversations I had with Mica Wickersham at Alembic. One was when I told her I was receiving a used Alembic, the other was when she was planning to ship to me an Alembic that I had custom ordered. Both times she said something to the effect of "ebony sometimes forgets it's not a tree anymore. Resist the temptation to pop the case open as soon as you get it. Let it sit in a room by itself for a couple hours to adjust to the new climate".

I didn't follow her advice either time, and thankfully things turned out fine, but the fact the she made the same comment to me years apart, indicates that there is something about ebony that support the seller's statement that it was fine when he shipped it.

From that point on how the Buyer and Seller resolve the Buyer's dissatisfaction is a matter of delicate interpersonal interaction. Enough has been said and implied in this thread that it's clear they won't be chatting over a beer anytime soon. That's the more unfortunate part.

Last point....I had often mentioned to the Seller that I coveted this particular bass and that it might be THE ONE bass that could induce GAS that I had put to rest a couple years ago. I was glad when it sold, since that reduced my temptation. I would have paid about what it sold for......maybe a little less. I would have had the fretboard repaired and asked him to cover the cost.

Peace,

James
 

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