Acme Users Unite!!!

[mntngrown]

Hey, what are you doin' with my rig?

But seriously, what eq settings are working for you?

I have a habit of posting and not returning, sorry.
For old school, no pedals, straight up, (flat) and tube pre, gain about 2 or 3 o'clock.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Define well. Could sound great, just not clean and loud..

Ah, I'm starting to get it.



In that case, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do amp-wise?

 

[msquared]

So Acme cabs don't work well with tube amps?

There are a lot of people on here who run tube amps with their Acme gear.

I found that my B2 sounded great paired with a both an Aguilar DB359 and a Traynor YBA-200. The full range of the cab really made the harmonics come out. The Aguilar was especially unbelievable.

As far as clean and loud together.. that's more of a tube amp thing than an Acme thing. After having gigged my B2 with a whole bunch of heads and A/Bing with a handful of cabs, I've come to the conclusion that the amount of volume I sacrifice is pretty negligible. The amount of change I feel I get from room to room (including differences in soundman skill level) is every bit as much or more a factor than the fact that there's a big letter B on the front of the cab.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

There are a lot of people on here who run tube amps with their Acme gear.

I found that my B2 sounded great paired with a both an Aguilar DB359 and a Traynor YBA-200. The full range of the cab really made the harmonics come out. The Aguilar was especially unbelievable.

As far as clean and loud together.. that's more of a tube amp thing than an Acme thing. After having gigged my B2 with a whole bunch of heads and A/Bing with a handful of cabs, I've come to the conclusion that the amount of volume I sacrifice is pretty negligible. The amount of change I feel I get from room to room (including differences in soundman skill level) is every bit as much or more a factor than the fact that there's a big letter B on the front of the cab.

This thread has got me so spooked about having enough power for these cabs!
It's got me hatching hair brained rig ideas.
Okay, so if I hook up my Mesa M2000 to one, and the 700RB to the other.....or buy a power amp and run a line out from the Mesa. BUY a new amp with 1200w of power.

The problem with running each 8ohm cab separately is that I reduce the output power of my amps.

I could use the amps as a preamp with a power amp.....but at that point a proper preamp would make more sense.

*sigh*
(what a great problem to have. )



I'm glad that tube amps seem too work with the Acme cabs.
...but I doubt my 100w tube amp will work.
...and 200w tube amp into a 2x10 is more than I'd ever try.

I suppose the reduced sensitivity doesn't help when you're working with tube amps.....but I can't imagine it to be as bad as everyone makes it out to be??

 

[KJung]

This thread has got me so spooked about having enough power for these cabs!
It's got me hatching hair brained rig ideas.
Okay, so if I hook up my Mesa M2000 to one, and the 700RB to the other.....or buy a power amp and run a line out from the Mesa. BUY a new amp with 1200w of power.

The problem with running each 8ohm cab separately is that I reduce the output power of my amps.

I could use the amps as a preamp with a power amp.....but at that point a proper preamp would make more sense.

*sigh*
(what a great problem to have. )



I'm glad that tube amps seem too work with the Acme cabs.
...but I doubt my 100w tube amp will work.
...and 200w tube amp into a 2x10 is more than I'd ever try.

I suppose the reduced sensitivity doesn't help when you're working with tube amps.....but I can't imagine it to be as bad as everyone makes it out to be??

I used two Acme B210 8ohm cabs for a while. As long as you can get 300 or so watts into each them, you should be fine, and that is pretty much what your M2000 will do. Also, the massive EQ power of the M2000 will help quite a bit with the Acme's, which need some tone sculpting in the low end to work well (preferably a hi pass filter).

With tube amps, the issue is not so much power, but voicing. Many of the classic tube amps were paired with a sealed cab with multi 10" drivers. This helped control the big, bloomy low end that is inherent in many tube amp executions, and also resulted in a nice lower and upper mid response and lower treble response that really transmitted the grind and grunt of an all tube signal chain when pushed a bit. For example, the Sadowsky tube amp was paired with the Sadowsky SA410 and 210 cabs, which, while two way and ported, were designed with a very steep roll-off in the low end and very tight surrounds, etc. to kind of mimic the low end of a fridge in a smaller box. That match was very nice... the combination of high SPL, tight low end, bright, present upper mids and the big, wide sounding voice of the Sadowsky Tube amp that had moderate wattage output (200 watts).

The Acme's are literally the opposite of the classic 'fridge' voicing... with a deep, totally open low end, smooth polite mids, and a very hi fi airy top end (that unfortunately can get quickly overwhelmed by all the low end in a typical mix or live context).

As long as you have a way to control that big low end, and the EQ power to dial some punch in (which the M2000 does very well), you should be fine. You won't hit the max SPL of more traditional 2 x 210 stacks, but you will have MUCH more deep low end (which can be a good or a bad thing, depending on your tone goal).

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I used two Acme B210 8ohm cabs for a while. As long as you can get 300 or so watts into each them, you should be fine, and that is pretty much what your M2000 will do. Also, the massive EQ power of the M2000 will help quite a bit with the Acme's, which need some tone sculpting in the low end to work well (preferably a hi pass filter)

300w into B2s? or B4s?

I've got a pair of B4s coming......Does that mean I need at least 600w to each?

The sub-low end response is that good, eh?

With tube amps, the issue is not so much power, but voicing. Many of the classic tube amps were paired with a sealed cab with multi 10" drivers. This helped control the big, bloomy low end that is inherent in many tube amp executions, and also resulted in a nice lower and upper mid response and lower treble response that really transmitted the grind and grunt of an all tube signal chain when pushed a bit. For example, the Sadowsky tube amp was paired with the Sadowsky SA410 and 210 cabs, which, while two way and ported, were designed with a very steep roll-off in the low end and very tight surrounds, etc. to kind of mimic the low end of a fridge in a smaller box. That match was very nice... the combination of high SPL, tight low end, bright, present upper mids and the big, wide sounding voice of the Sadowsky Tube amp that had moderate wattage output (200 watts).

The Acme's are literally the opposite of the classic 'fridge' voicing... with a deep, totally open low end, smooth polite mids, and a very hi fi airy top end (that unfortunately can get quickly overwhelmed by all the low end in a typical mix or live context).

So what kind of amps are the Acme's designed for?
Tight modern preamps with big power amps?

As long as you have a way to control that big low end, and the EQ power to dial some punch in (which the M2000 does very well), you should be fine. You won't hit the max SPL of more traditional 2 x 210 stacks, but you will have MUCH more deep low end (which can be a good or a bad thing, depending on your tone goal).

I play in a stoner rock/metal band....so a big bottom is exactly what I'm going for.

 

[mrpackerguy]

300w into B2s? or B4s?

I've got a pair of B4s coming......Does that mean I need at least 600w to each?

Seriously, you will want to put as much as humanly possible into them. 600W to me would only be a starting point with two B4s. I drove one with 900W CA-9 and a Kern pre and while it sounded wonderful, I truly believe you are going to need more with two B4s, especially if they are 4ohm cabs.

 

[KJung]

300w into B2s? or B4s?

I've got a pair of B4s coming......Does that mean I need at least 600w to each?

The sub-low end response is that good, eh?



So what kind of amps are the Acme's designed for?
Tight modern preamps with big power amps?



I play in a stoner rock/metal band....so a big bottom is exactly what I'm going for.

Ah... B4's.... yeah, you will want some power into those. Big, deep low end is what you will get. The SPL is low (of course, the SPL is actually higher below 50hz than many cabs, but that's not how our ears hear things).

Not really sure what you can do to power those. If they were both 4ohms, you could get a moderate sized PA amp. With both 8ohms, I guess a very high powered PA type amp (with a hi pass filter... bonus) that can put 500-750 or so watts into each side at 8ohms would do you pretty well.

 

[Zooberwerx]

300w into B2s? or B4s?

I've got a pair of B4s coming......Does that mean I need at least 600w to each?

The sub-low end response is that good, eh?



So what kind of amps are the Acme's designed for?
Tight modern preamps with big power amps?



I play in a stoner rock/metal band....so a big bottom is exactly what I'm going for.

A B-2 really needs to see 300-500 watts...YMMV...but since we're talking B-4's....

IMO, any preamp will suffice provided you find the voicing satisfactory. I've use Ampeg, SWR, SansAmp, GK, Ashly, Demeter, Peavey, ART, Yamaha...you name it. I'm particularly fond of components with onboard para EQ's to clean up the lows and mids.

At the moment, I'm using a QSC RMX 2450 in bridged mono (1300 watts / 8 ohm) to run a single Acme B-4. It's almost overkill but the config. allows me to add a second daisy-chained B-4 resulting in a 4 ohm load. The 2450 pushes 2400 watts or 1200 per cab...more than enough to light those suckers up! I do engage the 30 hz HPF and boost nothing EQ-wise...there's really no need. FWIW, you can pick up a decent lead sled for next-to-nothing as the performing community clamors for the newer lightweight offerings.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Seriously, you will want to put as much as humanly possible into them. 600W to me would only be a starting point with two B4s. I drove one with 900W CA-9 and a Kern pre and while it sounded wonderful, I truly believe you are going to need more with two B4s, especially if they are 4ohm cabs.

That's why I had considered buying a 600wx2 amp, Bi-amping or some sort of preamp/power amp rig.

The Mesa puts 625w RMS @ 4 ohm. 2400w peak I think?

The cabs I've got coming are both 8 Ohms.
Stacked in parallel that should be 4ohms right?

Ah... B4's.... yeah, you will want some power into those. Big, deep low end is what you will get. The SPL is low (of course, the SPL is actually higher below 50hz than many cabs, but that's not how our ears hear things).

Not really sure what you can do to power those. If they were both 4ohms, you could get a moderate sized PA amp. With both 8ohms, I guess a very high powered PA type amp (with a hi pass filter... bonus) that can put 500-750 or so watts into each side at 8ohms would do you pretty well.

......so attenuating below 50hz will help with my power issues too, eh?

Can I run a power amp with the output bridged into the stack set up for 4ohm?

 

[KJung]

That's why I had considered buying a 600wx2 amp, Bi-amping or some sort of preamp/power amp rig.

The Mesa puts 625w RMS @ 4 ohm. 2400w peak I think?

The cabs I've got coming are both 8 Ohms.
Stacked in parallel that should be 4ohms right?



......so attenuating below 50hz will help with my power issues too, eh?

Can I run a power amp with the output bridged into the stack set up for 4ohm?

Yes, yes, and yes (make sure the power amp can do this.. 4ohm bridged results in the amp running 2ohms per side... most can, some can't). Not sure of the optimal hi pass setting on the amp... but some sort of low end 'hard cut' is a very good thing with these cabs if you are cranking them in a mix. TBer AlexClaber (former Acme user and now owner of Barefaced cabs) can help you with the skinny on exact hi pass freq if you PM him.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

A B-2 really needs to see 300-500 watts...YMMV...but since we're talking B-4's....

IMO, any preamp will suffice provided you find the voicing satisfactory. I've use Ampeg, SWR, SansAmp, GK, Ashly, Demeter, Peavey, ART, Yamaha...you name it. I'm particularly fond of components with onboard para EQ's to clean up the lows and mids.

At the moment, I'm using a QSC RMX 2450 in bridged mono (1300 watts / 8 ohm) to run a single Acme B-4. It's almost overkill but the config. allows me to add a second daisy-chained B-4 resulting in a 4 ohm load. The 2450 pushes 2400 watts or 1200 per cab...more than enough to light those suckers up! I do engage the 30 hz HPF and boost nothing EQ-wise...there's really no need. FWIW, you can pick up a decent lead sled for next-to-nothing as the performing community clamors for the newer lightweight offerings.

Riis

Which preamps off the top of your head have the built in EQs?

I've never even looked at preamps....or power amps for that matter??

I've been using an 800RB into a 2x15 and have been really digging the tone. VERY warm and/or muted in the high end....with big low end boom.
I use OD pedals most of the time to get my tone.

For $300 a piece for the B4s shipped....I couldn't pass it up.

Sounds like they may be a little more "high end" then I had anticipated.

Heck, maybe one cab will be enough for me?

Never had volume issues with the 800RB & 2x15. Always had volume to spare.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

A few years ago, I was having serious lower back trouble, and was having difficulty managing even the 40lb weight of my first-gen Acme B2. So, I gave it to a friend who desperately needed an cab. That was the only time I've ever gotten rid of a piece of gear that I was totally happy with, and if he ever gets bored with it, I would be quite happy to take it back.

It sounded good with the little SWR Studio 220 I was using at the time, and even better paired with my Carver power amp. I would recommend them to anyone who wants to hear a really good low B.

The only caveat I found with mine, is that you need to have suitably flexible EQ (either through onboard EQ on your bass, or amp/pedals), to deliver your "signature tone", as the Acme is pretty uncoloured. Not flat, as they still have a mid scoop and a definite bump in the low mids, but still pretty uncoloured compared to most regular bass cabs.

 

[Zooberwerx]

That's why I had considered buying a 600wx2 amp, Bi-amping or some sort of preamp/power amp rig.

The Mesa puts 625w RMS @ 4 ohm. 2400w peak I think?

The cabs I've got coming are both 8 Ohms.
Stacked in parallel that should be 4ohms right?



......so attenuating below 50hz will help with my power issues too, eh?

Can I run a power amp with the output bridged into the stack set up for 4ohm?

Two 8 ohm Acme B-4's run in parallel / daisy-chain configuration will result in a 4 ohm load. Here's where a prior discussion continues: I'm comfortable running my amps in bridged mono into a 4 ohm load. Others are not as there are concerns about overheating, etc. Please check manufacturer's specs before proceeding. Keep in mind that a 2400 watt power amp (like mine) only pushes 450 watts / per side / 8 ohm in stereo or dual mono mode.

A HPF setting of 30-40 hz should be more than adequate.

Riis

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Which preamps off the top of your head have the built in EQs?

All of them?

For $300 a piece for the B4s shipped....I couldn't pass it up.

Sounds like they may be a little more "high end" then I had anticipated.

That's a very good deal.

You may want to look at the Crown Drivecore power amps. Very light and powerful, and pretty inexpensive. Going through Northern Light and Sound, I got one of the Drivecore 2500s for under 500, and it can put out 2400w at 4ohms bridged. You could probably use the 1000 or 1500 model which are $100+ bucks cheaper.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

All of them?

HA! I meant graphic EQs.

Or preamps that work better than others with the Acme cabs?

That's a very good deal.

You may want to look at the Crown Drivecore power amps. Very light and powerful, and pretty inexpensive. Going through Northern Light and Sound, I got one of the Drivecore 2500s for under 500, and it can put out 2400w at 4ohms bridged. You could probably use the 1000 or 1500 model which are $100+ bucks cheaper.

I am the "GAS KING".

A friend of mine suggested the Drivecores to me as well.
I'll have to check those out.

I'm contemplating the 1200w amp heads too....
SVT4Pro, ShuttleMax 12, GBE1200, etc....

 

[Zooberwerx]

Which preamps off the top of your head have the built in EQs?

I've never even looked at preamps....or power amps for that matter??

I've been using an 800RB into a 2x15 and have been really digging the tone. VERY warm and/or muted in the high end....with big low end boom.
I use OD pedals most of the time to get my tone.

For $300 a piece for the B4s shipped....I couldn't pass it up.

Sounds like they may be a little more "high end" then I had anticipated.

Heck, maybe one cab will be enough for me?

Never had volume issues with the 800RB & 2x15. Always had volume to spare.

Off the top of my head, the Ashly BP41, SansAmp RPM, Demeter HBP-1, and Yamaha pre's all have at least a single band of para EQ. There are others but these are the models with which I've had firsthand experiences.

When it comes to purchasing pre & power components, ask yourself two questions: what's my budget and is weight a factor? Okay, a third question: what's available in my area? You can rack a stellar rig for under $500 if you watch the classifieds and aren't too picky. A Sansamp RBI / RPM will run you $200-250 and suitable power amps can be had for the same price. Some of the newer lightweight imports (Peavey, Crown, etc) are also very attractive but will require some addt'l coin...but not that much. Note: IMO, the SansAmp stuff makes for a great solid "starter" pre for those who've had little or no experience.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

When it comes to purchasing pre & power components, ask yourself two questions: what's my budget and is weight a factor? Okay, a third question: what's available in my area? You can rack a stellar rig for under $500 if you watch the classifieds and aren't too picky. A Sansamp RBI / RPM will run you $200-250 and suitable power amps can be had for the same price. Some of the newer lightweight imports (Peavey, Crown, etc) are also very attractive but will require some addt'l coin...but not that much. Note: IMO, the SansAmp stuff makes for a great solid "starter" pre for those who've had little or no experience.

Riis

If I sell my M2000, 800RB and MIM Jazz V....I'll have around $1k to play with......otherwise, closer to $500 total.
(since I just spent $600 on a pair of cabs)

Weight? Not a big deal.
I've got a 4 space rack case, so whatever will fit in there.

Locally? not much.
We really only have one shop that carries bass gear, and it's not a GC. GC is about 2 hours away from me.
So I'd assume they have basic PA power amps?

That's what I'd like to avoid.....if possible.....is the "starter" stuff. Buy once, buy right.
If I have to hold off and save for a few months before I can gig with the Acme cabs.....so be it.

How are preamps and power amp rigs different from standard amp head rights? (question about the "experience" part)

 

[Zooberwerx]

If I sell my M2000, 800RB and MIM Jazz V....I'll have around $1k to play with......otherwise, closer to $500 total.
(since I just spent $600 on a pair of cabs)

Weight? Not a big deal.
I've got a 4 space rack case, so whatever will fit in there.

That's what I'd like to avoid.....if possible.....is the "starter" stuff. Buy once, buy right.
If I have to hold off and save for a few months before I can gig with the Acme cabs.....so be it.

How are preamps and power amp rigs different from standard amp head rights? (question about the "experience" part)

By "starter", I mean inexpensive, easy to use, great sounding (although not everybody's favorite), durable, etc. You can upgrade any time you like as I've done and keep the SansAmp as back-up / secondary or use it as an overdrive in conjunction with another pre. You're right, $1000 buys a whole lot more than $500. Make up your mind...how much are you really willing to spend? A grand will buy some spectacular stuff; just check the TB classifieds.

The pre / power config. is more of a must-have when dealing with Acme cabs. I've found more bang-for-the-buck especially in the power dept....watts is cheap. Don't like the tone or voicing? Its far easier to swap out a dedicated pre than an integrated bass head and still maintain the necessary power base.

BTW, you got a heckuva deal on the Acme cabs! Oh, and just to let you know, one of nicest preamps I own is an Ashley BP-41....I paid less than $100 for it. Here's an early photo of my Acme rig with an RBI, HBP-1, and the universally hated FMR RNC compressor and Sonic Maximizer.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

By "starter", I mean inexpensive, easy to use, great sounding (although not everybody's favorite), durable, etc. You can upgrade any time you like as I've done and keep the SansAmp as back-up / secondary or use it as an overdrive in conjunction with another pre. You're right, $1000 buys a whole lot more than $500. Make up your mind...how much are you really willing to spend? A grand will buy some spectacular stuff; just check the TB classifieds.

I've always gotten the impression that the sansamp was similar to the Ampeg tone?

Like I said, if I can sell some stuff, I'll have much more $$$ to work with.

I figure I'll wait for the cabs to arrive.....mess around with the amps I have first.....then sell stuff and pickup a pre/power rig.

That will give me time to research too.
I'd like to find something a little more vintage sounding.

The pre / power config. is more of a must-have when dealing with Acme cabs. I've found more bang-for-the-buck especially in the power dept....watts is cheap. Don't like the tone or voicing? Its far easier to swap out a dedicated pre than an integrated bass head and still maintain the necessary power base.

Good points.
I hadn't really thought about that.

With the Acme, maintaining power is important.

Are there many differences between power amps?
of course features, I would assume, make a difference in tone and cost....but do all power amps sound similar?

BTW, you got a heckuva deal on the Acme cabs! Oh, and just to let you know, one of nicest preamps I own is an Ashley BP-41....I paid less than $100 for it.

Riis

I've been looking for a new cab for a while.....even if only as a back up to the 2x15......

The Acme cabs come at a cost though....which I hadn't considered.
I'm going to pretty much need two separate rigs....if I want to utilize both B4s.