Acme Users Unite!!!

[jasper383]

Never had volume issues with the 800RB & 2x15. Always had volume to spare.

If you never had volume issues with one 215, why are you going to two 410s?

One of the B4s, well-eq'd, driven by any of your heads will likely be enough. A 700RB into the B4 will be loud enough, ime, for just about anything, and if you need more, there will probably be PA help.

I bought one of the B4s from Bassbrock, as well, to replace a B2 and a B4 I unwisely sold a couple years ago. I never had volume issues with either--I drove them with a Hartke L500 and a LMII.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I've always gotten the impression that the sansamp was similar to the Ampeg tone?

Like I said, if I can sell some stuff, I'll have much more $$$ to work with.

I figure I'll wait for the cabs to arrive.....mess around with the amps I have first.....then sell stuff and pickup a pre/power rig.

That will give me time to research too.
I'd like to find something a little more vintage sounding.



Good points.
I hadn't really thought about that.

With the Acme, maintaining power is important.

Are there many differences between power amps?
of course features, I would assume, make a difference in tone and cost....but do all power amps sound similar?



I've been looking for a new cab for a while.....even if only as a back up to the 2x15......

The Acme cabs come at a cost though....which I hadn't considered.
I'm going to pretty much need two separate rigs....if I want to utilize both B4s.

Funny story: I bought the RBI having been told they have the Ampeg vibe but having no firsthand experience with the Ampeg line. When I finally snagged an SVP-Pro, I found I liked the RBI better. To each his own, eh?

In a double-blind study, I doubt if I could discern a difference amongst power amps of similar specs. Others say they can. Bottom line: buy the best amp you can afford. As you may have noticed, I'm a big QSC fan and have used both the RMX and PLX series so I'll stick with these in terms of options / comparisons:

*A PLX 3602 will push only 775 watts per side / 8 ohm in stereo mode. Its easy to see why bridged mono may be your best friend provided the amp is rated for such and has shown a history of reliability when used in this manner.

*A "2400" amp will push only 450 watts per side / 8 ohm in stereo mode but will do ~2400 watts in bridged mono / 4 ohm (two Acme's daisy-chained) or 1200 watts per box.

Seriously, I'd aim for QSC RMX 2450, PLX 2502, or equivalent. If you go this route, I don't really see a need for two separate rigs or amps. Buy used and haggle like an Arab camel trader. Folks are offing these things (especially the RMX's) in favor of lighter weight components and willing to take the hit on a local sale so as to avoid shipping.

Riis

 

[bassbrock]

Another thing to remember is that it takes 10x the wattage to sound 2x as loud. So 1000W vs 100W might sound like a massive and ridiculous wattage difference, but at best is twice is loud with the same cabinet, not considering excursion limits and power compression.

I'll reiterate that with all of my Acme cabs, Series I/II B4's and B2's, I never had a problem with volume or farting or any of the other negative things people here have complained about. I blew a light bulb once with feedback, but thats it. Replaced it, never looked back and it never happened again.

I'm gonna miss my cabs. I've got 'em all packed up as of yesterday and hopefully will ship out later today or tomorrow.

I will be an Acme owner again one day, I know it.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

If you never had volume issues with one 215, why are you going to two 410s?

GAS mostly.....good prices.
...and the stage presence of an 8x10 stack doesn't hurt.

I was hoping to explore bass tone a little bit.....since I've really only played through the 2x15. Something with a wider frequency response.

One of the B4s, well-eq'd, driven by any of your heads will likely be enough. A 700RB into the B4 will be loud enough, ime, for just about anything, and if you need more, there will probably be PA help.

I thought the 700RB would be nice with the B4...since they have a natural low end roll off?

Then I read this thread and go.......oh crap. I don't have enough power!!

I've never had a problem with volume. (usually too loud )
The 2x15 is substantially more efficient than the B4 though.

I bought one of the B4s from Bassbrock, as well, to replace a B2 and a B4 I unwisely sold a couple years ago. I never had volume issues with either--I drove them with a Hartke L500 and a LMII.

Hmmm....it's good to hear the other side of the opinion.

I'll just have to try the amps with the cabs and see how it sounds.

Driving both cabs with a single amp, isn't going to happen though.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

*space saving snip*

Riis

Thanks for all of the info and help.

I'll definitely keep my eye out for a deal on all of the above.

I'm definitely keeping the 700RB as a backup....but until I can get a high powered rig together for the Acme cabs......I'll have to gig with the 700RB and 2x15.

(Plus, I'm not even sure (2) B4s will even fit in our van!)

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Another thing to remember is that it takes 10x the wattage to sound 2x as loud. So 1000W vs 100W might sound like a massive and ridiculous wattage difference, but at best is twice is loud with the same cabinet, not considering excursion limits and power compression.

Yep.

Also, twice as much speaker area = +3dB
twice as much power = +3dB

Right?

I'll reiterate that with all of my Acme cabs, Series I/II B4's and B2's, I never had a problem with volume or farting or any of the other negative things people here have complained about. I blew a light bulb once with feedback, but thats it. Replaced it, never looked back and it never happened again.

This thread made me wonder how loud, and how fat these people that blow up Acmes are running?

How many watts they're pumping into the cabs too.

I'm gonna miss my cabs. I've got 'em all packed up as of yesterday and hopefully will ship out later today or tomorrow.

I will be an Acme owner again one day, I know it.

I'm bursting at the seams with anticipation!!
I hope they make it here safely!

 

[lbanks]

Stupid wish #917782b: An Acme 1x15. Yes I know its foolish, but a man can dream.

 

[BillyB_from_LZ]

Stupid wish #917782b: An Acme 1x15. Yes I know its foolish, but a man can dream.

I suspect that something like that is as close as LDS or fEarful...or perhaps an AccuGroove Tri115L...

 

[BillyB_from_LZ]

If I sell my ...

Since I started a lot of this...I'd recommend that you wait until you have your Acmes, try out your current amps with them and see if they do what you want.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

That's a good idea.....but.....
I had the M2000 up for sale before I even thought about the acmes.

 

[msquared]

I have heard an M2000 with an Acme before. Absolutely killer. I can't imagine legitimately needing anything more than an M2000 and one 4ohm B4. Beyond that you're either getting PA support or you're playing the wrong gigs.

Wanting more is another thing entirely.

I will also chime in on the volume thing: I have yet to have trouble with it. The people who talk about Acme gear not being loud enough are seriously splitting hairs or don't know how to EQ properly. It is a bit interesting getting used to the Acme if you've gone your whole life using cabs that already have a drastic voicing but that doesn't mean you have to have some weirdo spaceship amp setup to make them work.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

625w at 4 ohms.....

not sure what it is at 8ohms?
Both cabs are 8.

The M2000 had been overkill in my bad with the 2x15.
I doubt the slight reduction in output could possibly be that drastic.

Plus I want to play with these bands, that have such lenient sound guys!!!
"Sure crank up your 2400w power amp! stage volume is a non-issue"


The problem I have....the good problem I have is how to power two 4x10s in a reasonable way?

 

[msquared]

A Crest CA9 or a pair of Aguilar DB728s with any of the usual good preamp suspects.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

A Crest CA9 or a pair of Aguilar DB728s with any of the usual good preamp suspects.

then I'm back to the beginning....needing a whole new rig.


I can't imagine my 2x15 is that much louder than an Acme B4.
With the 700RB, and it's natural low end roll off.....it might be a decent match?
(of course, the Mesa will be my first trial. )

 

[msquared]

I guess that mentioning a pair of DB728s wasn't enough to suggest I was joking.

I think you're on the right track with trying them with your Mesa. I would go with a single 4ohm B4 personally and then upgrade if it wasn't enough. I've never understood the 8ohm B4 thing unless it was paired with something ridiculous like a CA9 in bridged mono (1000w per cab - you're maybe overcompensating).

 

[Zooberwerx]

Plus I want to play with these bands, that have such lenient sound guys!!!
"Sure crank up your 2400w power amp! stage volume is a non-issue"


The problem I have....the good problem I have is how to power two 4x10s in a reasonable way?

This is not an issue of volume but, rather, one of power. Your question above is spot-on..."how do I power two Acme B-4 8 ohm cabs?" Accurate reproduction of low-end freq's requires power and the recommended power for a single B-4 cab is ~1000 watts (per Andy Lewis @ Acme). Having used nothing but B-4's for the past ten years, I can attest to this. If you can get by with 500-600 watts and are satisfied with the results, so be it. 2400 watts sounds like a lot but when you break it down as to power per cab (<1200 watts), you're pretty much in the ballpark. I've listed two or three amps which I felt would be appropriate; the Crest CA-9 was also thrown into the mix...good choice and all are attractively priced on the secondhand market. Only need to power one B-4? No problem; power amps have input attenuators and preamps have volume knobs. FWIW, if you're happy with MB's tone but need addt'l horsepower, you can always add a slave power amp and feed it a signal from the preamp out, FX send, etc.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I guess that mentioning a pair of DB728s wasn't enough to suggest I was joking.

I think you're on the right track with trying them with your Mesa. I would go with a single 4ohm B4 personally and then upgrade if it wasn't enough. I've never understood the 8ohm B4 thing unless it was paired with something ridiculous like a CA9 in bridged mono (1000w per cab - you're maybe overcompensating).

Oh!
I've never even looked twice at the Aguilar stuff.....too expensive.

My thought was that having a 4ohm 8x10 would kick major butt.
Little did I realize that I'd need at least 1000w-2400w to power them.
(if I want my low B to hold up)

Heck, 1 cab is probably plenty....but having a full stack is pretty looming on stage. (keeps up with my guitar player's dual 4x12 stack)

This is not an issue of volume but, rather, one of power. Your question above is spot-on..."how do I power two Acme B-4 8 ohm cabs?" Accurate reproduction of low-end freq's requires power and the recommended power for a single B-4 cab is ~1000 watts (per Andy Lewis @ Acme). Having used nothing but B-4's for the past ten years, I can attest to this. If you can get by with 500-600 watts and are satisfied with the results, so be it. 2400 watts sounds like a lot but when you break it down as to power per cab (<1200 watts), you're pretty much in the ballpark. I've listed two or three amps which I felt would be appropriate; the Crest CA-9 was also thrown into the mix...good choice and all are attractively priced on the secondhand market. Only need to power one B-4? No problem; power amps have input attenuators and preamps have volume knobs. FWIW, if you're happy with MB's tone but need addt'l horsepower, you can always add a slave power amp and feed it a signal from the preamp out, FX send, etc.

Riis

I thank you much for all of your advice.

After I test my MB and 700RB with a single cab, and the MB with both cabs....
If it's not cutting it, it will be time to look at power amps.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

My local shop had jack for gear.

They had one used Mackie 1400i ($250), a used Crown CE-2000($325) and a NOS Peavey Peavey DPC1400X ($1k).

 

[bassbrock]

My thought was that having a 4ohm 8x10 would kick major butt.
Little did I realize that I'd need at least 1000w-2400w to power them.
(if I want my low B to hold up)

You don't need 1000W-2400W - most likely what you have will work, so wait till you try it before buying anything. Also, you are on the right track with the 8ohm B4's - they work well as a 4 ohm load to the amp when paralleled. The full 8x10 stack sounds nothing short of amazing.

Tracking # coming today btw.

 

[Zooberwerx]

My local shop had jack for gear.

They had one used Mackie 1400i ($250), a used Crown CE-2000($325) and a NOS Peavey Peavey DPC1400X ($1k).

Where are you located? FWIW, the Mackie would be fine for a single 8 ohm B-4. The price is a little high; should be more like $175-200 but, hey, its a retail business.

Edit: BTW, if you're having to contend with an improperly EQ'd Marshall guitar stack, you're pretty much hosed from the git-go.

Riis