Acme Users Unite!!!

[Zooberwerx]

Thanks GasKing!

so, a PAIR of B4's was almost as loud as a solitary 2x15. hmmmm. That may not do the trick. I'm looking to trade 2 Carvin BRX10.2 cabs rated 600W each at 4ohm, for single B4 at 4ohm. Odds are that combined Carvin rig is gonna pump some jams a bit louder, huh?

Here's the Mesa manual:

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Basis M-2000.pdf

According to spec, the M2000 pushes 625 watts into a 4 ohm load (like two Acme B-4 8 ohms in parallel) resulting in ~300 watts per box. Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, you're seriously under-powered. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the B-4's need ~800+ watts each to really "shine". You did say this was a "let's use what I have on hand and see how they sound" experiment...now you know. You have a few options:

*Borrow a dedicated power amp (at least 2400 watts), slave it to your Mesa, and repeat the trial. Better? Great! No improvement?...

*...flip the Acmes and stick with your existing rig or consider alternate brands.

Edit: this is directed at GasKing but useful for all who are considering purchasing an Acme. Sorry for any confusion!

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Fair enough. With your attenuators set as described, you're halfway to "subwoofer". An early manual suggests setting the mids @ 5 and HF @ 2 for the flattest response possible. I go 4 and 1 and tweak the preamp (PEQ) to bring out the low end articulation and finger tone in the high mids. The cab responds tremendously with no more than 1-2 dB in either direction.

Riis

I think it's because I'm accustom to a darker sound at this point.
I've been using the 2x15 with no tweeter and no mid driver for almost 1.5 years now.

PLUS! I'm using overdrive and fuzz effects 85% of the time.

Thanks GasKing!

so, a PAIR of B4's was almost as loud as a solitary 2x15. hmmmm. That may not do the trick. I'm looking to trade 2 Carvin BRX10.2 cabs rated 600W each at 4ohm, for single B4 at 4ohm. Odds are that combined Carvin rig is gonna pump some jams a bit louder, huh?

One B4 would have been more than plenty.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Here's the Mesa manual:

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Basis M-2000.pdf

According to spec, the M2000 pushes 625 watts into a 4 ohm load (like two Acme B-4 8 ohms in parallel) resulting in ~300 watts per box. Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, you're seriously under-powered. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the B-4's need ~800+ watts each to really "shine". You did say this was a "let's use what I have on hand and see how they sound" experiment...now you know. You have a few options:

*Borrow a dedicated power amp (at least 2400 watts), slave it to your Mesa, and repeat the trial. Better? Great! No improvement?...

*...flip the Acmes and stick with your existing rig or consider alternate brands.

Edit: this is directed at GasKing but useful for all who are considering purchasing an Acme. Sorry for any confusion!

Riis

Yes, it's definitely underpowered.

Like we talked, I didn't want to rush out and buy a power amp until I tried them out.

I really like the cabs....they sound really good.

...but if they're the right cabs for me? I don't know.
They might be a touch too hi-fi for me....since I'm big into dirty bass tone.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Yes, it's definitely underpowered.

Like we talked, I didn't want to rush out and buy a power amp until I tried them out.

I really like the cabs....they sound really good.

...but if they're the right cabs for me? I don't know.
They might be a touch too hi-fi for me....since I'm big into dirty bass tone.

Yeah, that's why a borrowed power amp makes the most sense. You also made it clear that you really didn't want to throw any extra $$ at the project for the timebeing. Sounds like you're right on track!

2 X 15 with no high-end support vs. an Acme B-4? I'm pretty sure you'll hear a difference. Adding OD or uber-fuzz throws a wrench into the works...I use neither and cannot give an informed / firsthand opinion or suggestions.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Yeah, that's why a borrowed power amp makes the most sense. You also made it clear that you really didn't want to throw any extra $$ at the project for the timebeing. Sounds like you're right on track!

2 X 15 with no high-end support vs. an Acme B-4? I'm pretty sure you'll hear a difference. Adding OD or uber-fuzz throws a wrench into the works...I use neither and cannot give an informed / firsthand opinion or suggestions.

Riis

I'm totally willing to buy a power amp and even a preamp....or even a high powered amp head. (SVT4PRO)
Just don't want to rush into anything.
(not to mention that there isn't much for power amps and especially preamps on the used market)

MAJOR difference.
Ideally, I'd like the middle ground between the 2x15 and B4.
Something thick, but with the ability to shape the high end.

Still, at 300w a cab.....it was MEGA loud. I don't need anymore volume.

Yeah totally.
Pretty much knew I wouldn't be using the tweeter....since I'm using dirt pedals.
I've got to work with the mid driver balance.
Plus moving farther away from the cabs and judging the overall tone is a must.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I'm totally willing to buy a power amp and even a preamp....or even a high powered amp head. (SVT4PRO)
Just don't want to rush into anything.
(not to mention that there isn't much for power amps and especially preamps on the used market)

MAJOR difference.
Ideally, I'd like the middle ground between the 2x15 and B4.
Something thick, but with the ability to shape the high end.

Still, at 300w a cab.....it was MEGA loud. I don't need anymore volume.

Yeah totally.
Pretty much knew I wouldn't be using the tweeter....since I'm using dirt pedals.
I've got to work with the mid driver balance.
Plus moving farther away from the cabs and judging the overall tone is a must.

If you like the tone of the Mesa and Acmes combined (and the jury is still out), you can use the Mesa as dedicated preamp with the addition of the power amp. Best of both worlds: use the combination for gigs / larger venues, use just the Mesa for practice / smaller venues. Cheapest way out. Want to upgrade to a higher-end preamp? I've seen, bought, and sold some stellar stuff in the $100 (!) - $400 range....check the TB classifieds for ideas. Still, it's not an imperative as your Mesa is a "Swiss Army knife"....I wouldn't get rid of it. IMO / IME, given the Acme's power requirements, I lean heavily towards the pre / power configuration as opposed to the single integrated bass head concept.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

If you like the tone of the Mesa and Acmes combined (and the jury is still out), you can use the Mesa as dedicated preamp with the addition of the power amp. Best of both worlds: use the combination for gigs / larger venues, use just the Mesa for practice / smaller venues. Cheapest way out. Want to upgrade to a higher-end preamp? I've seen, bought, and sold some stellar stuff in the $100 (!) - $400 range....check the TB classifieds for ideas. Still, it's not an imperative as your Mesa is a "Swiss Army knife"....I wouldn't get rid of it. IMO / IME, given the Acme's power requirements, I lean heavily towards the pre / power configuration as opposed to the single integrated bass head concept.

Riis

I was only using the "tube" side of the Mesa.....so it's kind of a waste of an amp in my case.
I do like the Mesa, but I don't think it's what I'm going for.
Switched to an 800RB a few months ago, and prefer it to the Mesa.

I'm primarily a rock player.....not straight bum bum bum bum bum bum, but more of the heavy indie rock or stoner rock.
I don't want a vintage tube tone (too flabby), and I don't want a super modern hi-fi tone.....more of a hybrid of both?
Sort of the classic SVT tone, but with a twist?
If that makes any sense?

I suppose the pre/power makes sense in case I don't jive with the pre.....I can just swap.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

For example, I really dig this sort overdriven bass tone....

 

[Zooberwerx]

I was only using the "tube" side of the Mesa.....so it's kind of a waste of an amp in my case.
I do like the Mesa, but I don't think it's what I'm going for.
Switched to an 800RB a few months ago, and prefer it to the Mesa.

I'm primarily a rock player.....not straight bum bum bum bum bum bum, but more of the heavy indie rock or stoner rock.
I don't want a vintage tube tone (too flabby), and I don't want a super modern hi-fi tone.....more of a hybrid of both?
Sort of the classic SVT tone, but with a twist?
If that makes any sense?

I suppose the pre/power makes sense in case I don't jive with the pre.....I can just swap.

Okay, we're on the same page. One of my preamps is the GK 2001 RBP which pretty much meets your description / needs. I'm making the fatal assumption the tone would be close to that of your 800.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

The GK preamp seems really awesome!
I guess I can only hope to find one used.
Until then, I suppose I can line out of my 700 or 800RB into a power amp to test it.

There's an Ampeg SVP-BSP too....which has the clean/dirty channels.

 

[Zooberwerx]

The GK preamp seems really awesome!
I guess I can only hope to find one used.
Until then, I suppose I can line out of my 700 or 800RB into a power amp to test it.

There's an Ampeg SVP-BSP too....which has the clean/dirty channels.

Again, you have an 800RB which can be chained to a slave power amp. Makes for a bulky box but why sell something that has multiple applications? I'm not familar with the entire GK line but the 2001 RBP does have dual clean / dirty (and I mean over-the-top) channels. I'd be willing to say the voicings are similar.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Again, you have an 800RB which can be chained to a slave power amp. Makes for a bulky box but why sell something that has multiple applications? I'm not familar with the entire GK line but the 2001 RBP does have dual clean / dirty (and I mean over-the-top) channels. I'd be willing to say the voicings are similar.

Riis

After work today, that's my plan.

I'm going to feed my 800RB (or 700RB) into my Crown XLS402 (bridged mono @ 8 ohms for 900w) into a single B4.
Just to see how the cabs sound with the extra power.

I would love to try it with both cabs, but it appears that crown doesn't recommend running it bridged at 4 ohms.

 

[Zooberwerx]

After work today, that's my plan.

I'm going to feed my 800RB (or 700RB) into my Crown XLS402 (bridged mono @ 8 ohms for 900w) into a single B4. Just to see how the cabs sound with the extra power.

I would love to try it with both cabs, but it appears that crown doesn't recommend running it bridged at 4 ohms.

There ya go! This is pretty much what I'm pushing with either a Crest CA-6 or QSC RMX 1450...800-900 watts in bridged mono / 8 ohm. More than adequate for a single cab IME.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I'm assuming I should direct out to the power amp?
post EQ.

So you lose your DI capabilities with this setup?

 

[Zooberwerx]

I'm assuming I should direct out to the power amp?
post EQ.

So you lose your DI capabilities with this setup?

I'd opt for the FX send first. The signal is post gain, EQ, etc. and leaves the DI open for PA / FOH. According to the manual, the 800RB has a bare-bones back panel so your choices are limited. If you do use the DI to drive the power amp, you may be able to use a "pass thru" function via the two XLR inputs on the amp itself. Please check the manual for specifics.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I'd opt for the FX send first. The signal is post gain, EQ, etc. and leaves the DI open for PA / FOH. According to the manual, the 800RB has a bare-bones back panel so your choices are limited. If you do use the DI to drive the power amp, you may be able to use a "pass thru" function via the two XLR inputs on the amp itself. Please check the manual for specifics.

Riis

So either will work? nice.

I suppose it all depends on which cables/adapters I have.
Not sure if I have the proper XLR to 1/4" cable lying around.



Can't wait to try it out!


Doesn't seem like the RB amps would work well with the Acme cabs?
I mean, the RBs have a rolled off low end, and the Acme's have an extended low end?

 

[Zooberwerx]

So either will work? nice.

I suppose it all depends on which cables/adapters I have.
Not sure if I have the proper XLR to 1/4" cable lying around.



Can't wait to try it out!


Doesn't seem like the RB amps would work well with the Acme cabs?
I mean, the RBs have a rolled off low end, and the Acme's have an extended low end?

I haven't checked the manuals so I'm assuming the power amp doesn't have 1/4" inputs?

You won't know how the 800RB / Acme marriage sounds until you try it for yourself.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I haven't checked the manuals so I'm assuming the power amp doesn't have 1/4" inputs?

You won't know how the 800RB / Acme marriage sounds until you try it for yourself.

Riis

I tried hooking up my 700RB and M2000 up as preamps to my power amp via the direct out (as suggested).

sounded really bad?

it sounded distorted when I played normally (the peaks - pick attack overload).
Yet it wasn't loud at all. below practice levels and nasty sounding.
I tried backing off the direct levels, etc......

I plugged the M2000 in normally (M2000 into both cabs) and it sounded great?

 

[Zooberwerx]

I tried hooking up my 700RB and M2000 up as preamps to my power amp via the direct out (as suggested).

sounded really bad?

it sounded distorted when I played normally (the peaks - pick attack overload).
Yet it wasn't loud at all. below practice levels and nasty sounding.
I tried backing off the direct levels, etc......

I plugged the M2000 in normally (M2000 into both cabs) and it sounded great?

When you say "Direct Out", are your referring to the XLR / DI? Where do you have the DI level set? Do you have set to "Post EQ"? Where are the amp attenuators set? Where do you have the "Volume Input" and EQ levels set?

Anytime I hear the term "distorted", I start looking at gain structure....signal is too hot but I'm not sure where. Did you try the FX send? If all else fails, give GK a call. I'm sure they can help. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to tap into and send a clean preamp signal to an external power amp.

Riis

 

[JoshuaTSP]

When you say "Direct Out", are your referring to the XLR / DI? Where do you have the DI level set? Do you have set to "Post EQ"? Where are the amp attenuators set? Where do you have the "Volume Input" and EQ levels set?

Anytime I hear the term "distorted", I start looking at gain structure....signal is too hot but I'm not sure where. Did you try the FX send? If all else fails, give GK a call. I'm sure they can help. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to tap into and send a clean preamp signal to an external power amp.

Riis

Yes, the XLR DI.
I've tried many settings on the DI level. I can get the power amp to clip.....so I backed it down from there.
It sounded bad, so I backed it off even more.

I can choose either pre or post EQ on both amps. Both sounded like they're overloading something somewhere?

I started with all EQ flat, and graphic EQ out of the signal chain.

Using the "tube" channel of the Mesa, I had the channel volume at 10pm and the master volume to set the overall volume (which wasn't loud at all).

I'm definitely overloading something. Where and why?

I'm going to try my ART tube preamp....just for giggles.


I can't try the FX send until I get the proper cables.
I could send the FX send to my mixer and my mixer to the amp....but I really wanted to remove as much from the set up while testing.

Like I said, I can plug the Mesa and GK into the cabs, utilizing their amplifiers, and it sounds good.