Acme Users Unite!!!

[jokerjkny]

haha i thought you just sold your b2(s) just recently

yup, owned a B-2 waaaaaay back when.

but after you been exposed to how an Acme handles those lows, you too will be hooked.

 

[BillyB_from_LZ]

yup, owned a B-2 waaaaaay back when.

but after you been exposed to how an Acme handles those lows, you too will be hooked.

Wasn't it the "two 8 ohm B4s and a PLX3002" thread that drove you to buy your present B4?

I was dying for a B4 or two myself after that thread...I'll finally get my fix as there should be a TLC-needing B4 waiting on my doorstep when I get home from work tomorrow...

 

[jokerjkny]

hehe, billy, might have been...

but if there was ever a need, (and lord knows i'm hunting for one like a mad man ) would love to add another B-4 and smack 'em both upside their heads with a PLX3402.

 

[alexclaber]

but, i do hear a few differences in the tone btwn the B-2 and B-1, but nothing major. the B-1 is a bit more diffuse and all around you, while the B-2 seems a bit more focused.

Is that one B-1 vs one B-2 or two B-1's vs one B-2?

Alex

 

[jokerjkny]

hey alex,

a pair of B-1's vs. a single B-2 cab.

btw, its nice having the B-1 pair, cause sometimes my drummer would like to hear me better, so i can merely turn the bottom cab 90 degrees towards him. quite handy.

 

[alexclaber]

a pair of B-1's vs. a single B-2 cab.

That makes sense - the second mid/high source would make the dispersion characteristics less clear and focused and thus more diffuse. So although you have a bit of extra output in that region, the interaction of the two sources should make it appear a little less in your face. And the 10"s are marginally further apart so they'd act slightly less like a point source.

You know you were dreaming about a double Low-B4 stack? You can make a DIY version with your Low-B4, Low-B2 and two Low-B1 rigs all piled together - all you need is an excuse to use that much amplification at a gig!

Alex

 

[mrpackerguy]

I've got one in like new condition for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

 

[jokerjkny]

(...)
You know you were dreaming about a double Low-B4 stack? You can make a DIY version with your Low-B4, Low-B2 and two Low-B1 rigs all piled together - all you need is an excuse to use that much amplification at a gig!

Alex

lol!

that's practically "Tombowlus" like...

 

[tombowlus]

lol!

that's practically "Tombowlus" like...

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

[tombowlus]

Can anyone show a pic of the back of a B2 ?????

Here you go!

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[mrpackerguy]

Thanks to Ster (Thanks Ster!), I'm adding a second Low B2 II to rig. Now I'm probably going to have to upgrade my RMX 850 to feed them some real juice.

 

[alexclaber]

Been thinking more and more about those real sub-bass lows and their overall affect on the tone. bikertrash is a keen exponent of 50Hz high-pass filters on Acmes for crazy tightness and volume yet masses of low end and it's been making me ponder. Also, been listening back to the various live recordings of my rig in action and there is a somewhat excessive amount of ultra-lows, not boom per se because the sound is remarkably tight but it's still more wallowy than I'd like.

So, I've done some experimenting with matching the 50Hz filter on my QSC with some EQ on Cubase and listening through headphones (which go really low) the tone loses a minuscule amount of weight whilst gaining a usefully larger amount of 'nimbleness' for want of a better word. The EQ is basically a 0.5dB boost at 100Hz with a very gradual slope up to that from 200Hz, and then a filter which is flat at 60Hz, -3dB @ 50Hz, -6dB @ 40Hz, -10dB @ 30Hz etc.

I only play 4-string and had always wanted my rig to be very accurate right down to the lowest notes but it seems that such extreme low end has very little musical value. It's not like you feel it that much either, its more like the earth-shaking gently than like standing agaist a kickdrum.

I have a suspicion that this is more of an issue due to my Warwick's wenge neck-thru construction and active pickups which both conspire to put out a lot more fundamental than a bolt-on, maple-necked, passive bass would. (IIRC, your typical Fender puts out about 3-6dB less fundamental than second harmonic on the low notes, whilst at the other end of the spectrum an ebony neck-thru (that's ebony neck not just fingerboard) Alembic puts out equal quantities of fundamental and first harmonic.

Now I need to find a gigging opportunity to test the new theory in anger - I'm looking forward to having a useful amount of extra punch, clarity and LOUDNESS...

Alex

 

[MacheteJames]

Been thinking more and more about those real sub-bass lows and their overall affect on the tone. bikertrash is a keen exponent of 50Hz high-pass filters on Acmes for crazy tightness and volume yet masses of low end and it's been making me ponder. Also, been listening back to the various live recordings of my rig in action and there is a somewhat excessive amount of ultra-lows, not boom per se because the sound is remarkably tight but it's still more wallowy than I'd like.

So, I've done some experimenting with matching the 50Hz filter on my QSC with some EQ on Cubase and listening through headphones (which go really low) the tone loses a minuscule amount of weight whilst gaining a usefully larger amount of 'nimbleness' for want of a better word. The EQ is basically a 0.5dB boost at 100Hz with a very gradual slope up to that from 200Hz, and then a filter which is flat at 60Hz, -3dB @ 50Hz, -6dB @ 40Hz, -10dB @ 30Hz etc.

I only play 4-string and had always wanted my rig to be very accurate right down to the lowest notes but it seems that such extreme low end has very little musical value. It's not like you feel it that much either, its more like the earth-shaking gently than like standing agaist a kickdrum.

I have a suspicion that this is more of an issue due to my Warwick's wenge neck-thru construction and active pickups which both conspire to put out a lot more fundamental than a bolt-on, maple-necked, passive bass would. (IIRC, your typical Fender puts out about 3-6dB less fundamental than second harmonic on the low notes, whilst at the other end of the spectrum an ebony neck-thru (that's ebony neck not just fingerboard) Alembic puts out equal quantities of fundamental and first harmonic.

Now I need to find a gigging opportunity to test the new theory in anger - I'm looking forward to having a useful amount of extra punch, clarity and LOUDNESS...

Alex

Very interesting... have you tried listening to your Acmes both up close and while standing a distance away? I'd imagine that the lows sound better while standing far away than up close.

One other thing: doesn't cutting the lowest lows kind of defeat the purpose of the Acmes? How much extra headroom would one gain by cutting everything below 50hz?

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

alexclaber,

Can you tell me more about the filter? Does this exist only on your computer at this point, or have you implemented it for your rig? If so, how did you do it?

Even though I play 5-string, the low B string doesn't get that much use, and I'm intruiged with "tightness and clarity" in the low end.

JD

 

[bigbajo60]

While a "tight, nimble" tone can be quite inspiring for one as a musician... I've noticed in my many years of playing out that it's that "rumble" that seems to get the dancers' feet moving and their butts shaking.

At that "infra-sonic" level, you're basically coupling with bio-mechanical forces like people's heartbeats and pulses... resistance is futile at that point, you know?

And of course, anything that can get the masses dancing is good, because that leads to "sweaty-ness", which leads to "thirstiness", which leads to "drinki-ness" (as opposed to "drunkenness" which can come much later...), which leads to $$"ch-ching-ness"$$ at the bar... and THAT my friend, inevitably leads to the much desired "getting hired again and again-ness".

So as for me, I'll take those lowest Hz in order to keep their innards funkin' all night long.

 

[jokerjkny]

i thought this whole time alex was a 5 string user, but here he admits to being mostly a 4 stringer!

still, filtering out any frequencies below the 40Hz of his Low E would make for a tighter more responsive feel and sound. makes good sense to me.

but when it comes to notes below my low E, its great to know that i can hit those notes full on, and not suddenly drop out from the mix. i.e. when i'd use those horrible Hartke cabs at Smash Studios, my bandmates would always complain, "dont go too low with the notes... you disappear..."

(...)
One other thing: doesn't cutting the lowest lows kind of defeat the purpose of the Acmes? How much extra headroom would one gain by cutting everything below 50hz?

not really,

alex likes the sound of the acmes, and that's what he gets. no biggie.

 

[alexclaber]

Very interesting... have you tried listening to your Acmes both up close and while standing a distance away? I'd imagine that the lows sound better while standing far away than up close.

I haven't done it with the 50Hz filter on, but they sound great at any distance! I should point out that we're talking about really sub-bass rumble, not the main thump of the bottom end.

One other thing: doesn't cutting the lowest lows kind of defeat the purpose of the Acmes? How much extra headroom would one gain by cutting everything below 50hz?

The thing about the Acmes is that they have an incredibly accurate flat response. OK, they go lower than almost anything else but they also go higher and don't have any response peaks or dips from low down to high up, which goes really well with my chordal and effects laden moments. As a 4-stringer it's always been about that accurate sound. The only other cabs I'd consider would be old EAs (too heavy) or Accugrooves (too expensive) and neither show a significant improvement in tone or absolute loudness.

Can you tell me more about the filter? Does this exist only on your computer at this point, or have you implemented it for your rig? If so, how did you do it?

My QSC PLX 3002 has switchable filters on both channels. Either off (=5Hz roll-off), 30Hz (-3dB@30Hz 12dB/octave) or 50Hz (-3dB@50Hz 12dB/octave & +0.5dB@100Hz low Q). I've always used the 30Hz filter which makes no audible difference but really reduces the cone movement. Next time I play out I'll be trying the 50Hz filter to see if that extra tightness and headroom are noticeable in the live environment and if I miss that very low rumble.

i thought this whole time alex was a 5 string user, but here he admits to being mostly a 4 stringer!

Mostly a 4-stringer? Since I started playing 9 years ago I've been ONLY a 4-stringer! One fretted, one fretless. Drop-D or drop-B once in a blue moon. My next bass will probably be a very nice 6-string, but I'm in no hurry - sometime in the next 5 years I think...

but when it comes to notes below my low E, its great to know that i can hit those notes full on, and not suddenly drop out from the mix.

That's why I wanted cabs which were essentially flat to my low E (technically -3dB). Applying the 50Hz filter makes low E's fundamental -9dB but the difference in sound seems to be just a very subtle loss of weighty rumble, without any diminishing of thickness or loudness. I think it's about time I got over my purist approach and just did what sounds best - it's not like I don't use EQ on my bass. In fact, I usually add a bit of bass from my Aguilar OBP-3 which is centred @ 40Hz. So that small boost should flatten out the response to low E's fundamental and then the QSC's filter remove all the annoying percussive subs.

Alex

 

[jokerjkny]

(...)
That's why I wanted cabs which were essentially flat to my low E (technically -3dB). Applying the 50Hz filter makes low E's fundamental -9dB but the difference in sound seems to be just a very subtle loss of weighty rumble, without any diminishing of thickness or loudness. I think it's about time I got over my purist approach and just did what sounds best - it's not like I don't use EQ on my bass. In fact, I usually add a bit of bass from my Aguilar OBP-3 which is centred @ 40Hz. So that small boost should flatten out the response to low E's fundamental and then the QSC's filter remove all the annoying percussive subs.

Alex

hmm... good thoughts, AC,

its all about the ears and in a few cases the room.

 

[wurmhole]

I've been in the Acme club for over a year now, but now I have proof.

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[jokerjkny]

i love dredging up old posts... especially when you started them yourself!

but while i loved this rig for my regular "for hire" worship gigs,

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i have since moved onto this recently, the good Lawdy has been very good to me.

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