I'm cool with black magic. That 8X8 sounds interesting, did you say that was the one with upright bass in mind, Ziggydude? - or was this a different cab.
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Acoustic USA News
- Thread starter ZiggyDude
- Start date
Hey a "new" Acoustic B200H costs $217.
I assume the B600H is 2x in price but is rated at 600W into 2 ohms (no mention on the Acoustic Amplifier site if the rated output power is stated in RMS, peak or program???).
The B600H could actually exceed the original design of the reissue performance - assuming that someone at Acoustic Amplification nows what the actual ratings are for their product
Please, no comments about "Acoustic" watts and how they sound "louder" than whatever. There is no black magic to this technology - let's talk frequency response, driver sensitivity, feedback design, burst power etc, etc.
... but for some reason this older stuff gets WAAAY louder than comparably rated new stuff. My DB meter doesn't lie....
We will DEFINITELY be bench testing vintage gear and comparing to new gear in upcoming issues. I want to know if there's traction to any of these long-standing beliefs. All of the Acoustic stuff is on our test list.
Hey a "new" Acoustic B200H costs $217.
I assume the B600H is 2x in price but is rated at 600W into 2 ohms (no mention on the Acoustic Amplifier site if the rated output power is stated in RMS, peak or program???).
The B600H could actually exceed the original design of the reissue performance - assuming that someone at Acoustic Amplification nows what the actual ratings are for their product
Please, no comments about "Acoustic" watts and how they sound "louder" than whatever. There is no black magic to this technology - let's talk frequency response, driver sensitivity, feedback design, burst power etc, etc.
B600H = 600 Watts RMS @ 2 Ohms, 450 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms.
Target street price is $499.99, available in late October. Standard street price on the B200H is $249.99.
B115 cab 99dB 1W/M
B410 cab 102 dB 1W/M
B810 cab 103 dB 1W/M
Additional info including block diagrams, etc...can be found here:
www.acousticamplification.com
Click on the "product" dropdown menu, then B600H then, "manual" It is about 12MB, but you are correct, it does not specify RMS, although all power ratings are RMS for all models on the site
Hope this helps.
I used an Acoustic 450 with a 2X15 cab loaded with Altec 421Hs for years, it was only 175 watts and was plenty loud. I'm not sure why all the power in the new heads ??
The advantage the powered cabinets had was that you could use up to 4 bottoms with the 360 pre amp. I saw Larry Graham with Graham Central Station a few times and he usually had 2 for club gigs and used 4 at the Snack Concert outside in Kezar stadium in SF. BTW the BEST bass tone and clarity that I've ever heard at an outside event bar none. I never needed a second cab. Also portability, the bottom rolled like a handtruck and I only ever needed help going up stairs. Built like a tank.
Cool! I bet there will be some truth. My bet is that because in the old days Acoustic and Fender where run by engineers they tended to underestimate where companies are now run by marketers, who always overestimate.
For example, say an amp gets 150W RMS under ideal conditions. An engineer will tend to round down and say "it will always do 100W". A marketer will round and and say "150 rounds up to a nice 200W"
Or *worse*, a marketer will say if it can do 150W now, by the time we release it will do 250W!...Who knows... it could EVEN be that those 1960's and '70s engineers, who were brought up when high power amps were not readily available, made very efficient speaker cabinets. Whereas later speaker designers, who had access to higher power amps, exploited their power booty and created new and often times, less efficient cabinets, that required lots more power. So you get a higher rated rig today only delivers the same SPL that a lower powered vintage rig could.Cool! I bet there will be some truth. My bet is that because in the old days Acoustic and Fender where run by engineers they tended to underestimate where companies are now run by marketers, who always overestimate.
For example, say an amp gets 150W RMS under ideal conditions. An engineer will tend to round down and say "it will always do 100W". A marketer will round and and say "150 rounds up to a nice 200W"
That's while we'll be testing them...
This has been my guess all along. It will be VERY interesting to see the outcome of these tests. There was a big spat about this last week and a guy got kicked off the board due to his temper. It's an emotional issue here at TB ( shivering and tearing up as I try to uncurl my gripped fist's while attempting to type this).
I would be intertested in seeing what test methods will be applied when comparing old/vintage designs to current products.
I assume that you will be looking at the volume displacement of a given system (i.e. how far the driver is moving x the radiating area of each driver).
Peak and RMS SPL must be measured with the microphone in exactly the same position for each system measurement and the same stimulus applied as well. I would test enclosures in 4PI with a reference amplifier.
You need a complete characterization of each amplifier - burst power, THD, input sensitivity, etc.
Waving a Radio Shack SPL meter in front of a system in an office space will not generate credible data.
I assume that you will be looking at the volume displacement of a given system (i.e. how far the driver is moving x the radiating area of each driver).
Peak and RMS SPL must be measured with the microphone in exactly the same position for each system measurement and the same stimulus applied as well. I would test enclosures in 4PI with a reference amplifier.
You need a complete characterization of each amplifier - burst power, THD, input sensitivity, etc.
Waving a Radio Shack SPL meter in front of a system in an office space will not generate credible data.
No kidding. That was meaningless post. If it IS the B810, it should go in the other Acoustic threads about the GC line of Acoustic Amps.
You assume the poster put this comment in the "correct" thread, friend.
The TBer to whom I directed the question (not you, BTW) does not specify anything.
I can totally appreciate your quest for "credible data" but honestly, from my experience using new stuff and old stuff, it doesn't take more than a cursory listen/play to come to a quick and decisive conclusion. My "little" 110 watt Acoustic 150 head can chop off heads with a bass OR guitar plugged into it. Theres got to be a reason for this phenomenon, right!?
Hi GearHead
There was an 8x8 cabinet that they had been working with. It was originally designed for rock bass as an idea to make transporting stuff easier. The decision was that it did not really fit the "Electric Rock Sound" however lent very well to use with acoustic instruments.
I don't know what style you play - if you need a true "Rock" sound then one ofthe other cabs would be in your vein. If you are a double bass or EUB player - then maybe the 8x8 will be a nice item. Probably could pump you and an acoustic guitar through it and not even push it.
I hear that Acoustic USA may be hitting production in December. When the lines come out they may be willing to see if there is enough demand for stuff to go with the upright guys.
RCubed is probably right. Any stuff you see in GC now is not Acoustic USA and probably best fits another thread.
There was an 8x8 cabinet that they had been working with. It was originally designed for rock bass as an idea to make transporting stuff easier. The decision was that it did not really fit the "Electric Rock Sound" however lent very well to use with acoustic instruments.
I don't know what style you play - if you need a true "Rock" sound then one ofthe other cabs would be in your vein. If you are a double bass or EUB player - then maybe the 8x8 will be a nice item. Probably could pump you and an acoustic guitar through it and not even push it.
I hear that Acoustic USA may be hitting production in December. When the lines come out they may be willing to see if there is enough demand for stuff to go with the upright guys.
RCubed is probably right. Any stuff you see in GC now is not Acoustic USA and probably best fits another thread.
Note: Unscientific personal opinion follows:
My first real amp was a 150 with a 106 bottom, back in '76. Owned lots since then! 2 years ago, I went on an Acoustic pursuit, based on so many saying how magical the old gear was and how it 'shamed' newer gear power-wise, and the fact I had the money that a 17 year old never did
. I was doing 2-3 gigs a week, often in the same club, so I could compare. I got a 370/371, 320, 470, a 400 series 2x15 (404?), and combos. Yes, the 370/371 was fabulously loud and wonderful in tone on stage. The volume control position was barely moved from '0' and it was thunderous. Was all the power in the first few positions? Never found out. The combo I bought was a 126 I believe. Basically the 100-150 watt head in a 1x15 cabinet. Not the one with the big horizontal port on the bottom. This combo ran out of steam on stage VERY fast. It distorted nicely, but it was what I'd consider a 150watt amp by any standard. Yes, it was working properly. So, my results were mixed. I also tried a bunch of 200 watt pure tube amps, Traynor, Orange and vintage Trace Elliot. None of these had the gain of a quality 200-300 watt solid state amp of any vintage. What was also true though was that if you stacked enough efficient cabinets with a vintage tube head, you got a big increase in gain. But what a stack you had to move! I also experienced a side-by-side demo on stage with an SVT2Pro/Classic 8x10 and a Markbass CMD121P 1x12 combo. The Markbass seemed to have significantly more power and punch. Thus my comments above - it might be that vintage gear sounded so loud because we were more ready to stack big cabs back then to get the gain needed. Maybe.All of these experiences left me scratching my head! And wanting to get real specs on bass gear. Hence, the magazine.
I wasn't around "back in the day" using this stuff so I cant compare fuzzy memories with reality but I did start out with a Sunn head and a 2-15 cab loaded with Altec 421's and I would bounce the echo off the mountains that were a couple of miles away for fun! I'd hit one big power chord, mute it....and then wait. BANG!
The 2-15 is called a 402 FWIW and a very nice cab. Easy to transport and can easily fill a med size club with a nice cushion of bass. A 404 is the 6-12 cab ( I own two of em...) that will rip your head off. Probably one of the most diffecult cabs to move around. It just makes no sense... which makes PERFECT sense to me! R&R is about excess and this cab is nothing if not excessive, so of course, doubleing them up only makes more sense, right!?
The 2-15 is called a 402 FWIW and a very nice cab. Easy to transport and can easily fill a med size club with a nice cushion of bass. A 404 is the 6-12 cab ( I own two of em...) that will rip your head off. Probably one of the most diffecult cabs to move around. It just makes no sense... which makes PERFECT sense to me! R&R is about excess and this cab is nothing if not excessive, so of course, doubleing them up only makes more sense, right!?
The new 4x4 will be styled a lot like your 402 - but smaller.
I miss the fact they don't have side handles though - the folding spring loaded type.
I used my hot rodded 406 last week - tried both an Ampeg SVT4-Pro head and an Acoustic 370 on it.
With the new stuff - I heard there will also be a couple of 1x15 extension cabs. That might go well with the 2x10 or the 2x12.
I miss the fact they don't have side handles though - the folding spring loaded type.
I used my hot rodded 406 last week - tried both an Ampeg SVT4-Pro head and an Acoustic 370 on it.
With the new stuff - I heard there will also be a couple of 1x15 extension cabs. That might go well with the 2x10 or the 2x12.
