Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[Starthief]

Bought a plugin bundle from Noise Engineering today. It’s the Basimilus Iteritas, 3 other synths (can’t keep up with all their goofy names) and the Ruina distortion and Desmodus.

I interviewed with them a couple years ago, but Adam got the job instead of me. They liked me though and I've been beta testing for them since.

On the Vereor synths, I find setting the envelope to Percido and giving it a plucky shape, then assigning the envelope to one parameter and velocity to another, makes it pretty easy to find sweet spots even on the more abstract synths like Cursus. Or, ADSR but bring the release way back from its strangely long default, and assign pressure to something.

For Ruina, I feel like going through a specific routine works best with it.
- Volume in and out at 0dB
- Blend at max to start, bring it down later if you want.
- Phase and Center at the middle to start.
- All other sliders down fully.
- Bring up Saturate, tweak Center for tone, Overdrive for heat.
- Everything else is situational. Sometimes ludicrously awesome, sometimes comically bad, rarely anywhere in between.
- Modulating Phase with an LFO might be rewarding, or just find a sweet spot.
- Assigning the envelope follower to something sometimes works really nicely...

...

My personal ranking of the plugins in rough order of most favorite to "it's OK" and whether I prefer the plugin or Euro version:

The synths:

#1 Loquelic: Plugin.
(The Euro version had independent knobs for oscillator frequencies, which made it a hassle to nail both the ratio and the overall tuning. This is SUPER EASY in the plugin.

#2 Basimilus: Plugin
(The Euro version always felt to me like it 100% wanted to be a badass drum synth and I just didn't need drums that much. The plugin, with its polyphony, invites all kinds of cool metallic/melodic sounds.)

#3 Manis: Plugin (but it's close)
(The Euro version has a useful drone mode when the envelope is fully CW; it also had a super heavy deep sound to it which I think the plugin gets 96% of the way to, and I feel like Profundity was a little different and more interesting. But the plugin makes it so much easier to individually modulate parameters with the envelope at different amounts, whereas the Bash parameter that assigns them all is just not great IMHO. For me the plugin wins because I owned the module twice and sold it twice, and now I can have it for occasional use without taking up rack space.

One of my favorite things to do with it is drop the octave but raise Saw Mod. The "fundamental" interferes with the perceived pitch in fun ways. Also this works great with Doom and Octavize on Ruina.)

also #3 Virt: Euro (but sorta close)
(The Virt Iter Legio module sounds altogether badass, even without stereo phase modulation. The plugin is okay overall but Harm mode takes it to the next level. Both the Euro version and plugin sound clearer overall than the Arturia Microfreak incarnation of these algorithms.)

#4 Cursus: Euro
(It seemed a bit more intuitive to me, somehow, and I think the way the internal sample rate rides with the frequency made it sound cooler.)

#5 Sinc: (I never used the Euro version)
(It's just kind of a basic synth and hard to get excited about compared to their more unique offerings. But it shouldn't be completely overlooked, especially because it's free.)

The effects:

#1 Imitor: Plugin.
(They added so many features and so much more control, it's no contest. Imitor quickly became my second favorite delay plugin, just barely behind Valhalla Delay. It does typical delay stuff, fancy multitap rhythms, very nice chorusy and reverby effects... awesomeness. The Euro version was kind of neat but honestly didn't impress me that much.)

#2 Ruina: Plugin
(I don't use distortion all the time, so a plugin version frees up Versio for other things. HOWEVER... it can sound good as a waveshaper for oscillators, particularly with Doom adding its animation... so I may try it in the rack again sometime.)

#3 Desmodus: Plugin.
(I feel like reverb is usually more of a job for plugins, unless I want it for feedback loops.

Personally I dislike the shimmer reverb mode and I prefer other plugins for synced delays... so the range of things it can do is bigger than the range of things I want it to do. It has a particular character, and when I slap it onto a channel I know right away whether it's going to work for me or not -- so I don't spend much time tweaking it.)

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I interviewed with them a couple years ago, but Adam got the job instead of me. They liked me though and I've been beta testing for them since.

On the Vereor synths, I find setting the envelope to Percido and giving it a plucky shape, then assigning the envelope to one parameter and velocity to another, makes it pretty easy to find sweet spots even on the more abstract synths like Cursus. Or, ADSR but bring the release way back from its strangely long default, and assign pressure to something.

For Ruina, I feel like going through a specific routine works best with it.
- Volume in and out at 0dB
- Blend at max to start, bring it down later if you want.
- Phase and Center at the middle to start.
- All other sliders down fully.
- Bring up Saturate, tweak Center for tone, Overdrive for heat.
- Everything else is situational. Sometimes ludicrously awesome, sometimes comically bad, rarely anywhere in between.
- Modulating Phase with an LFO might be rewarding, or just find a sweet spot.
- Assigning the envelope follower to something sometimes works really nicely...

...

My personal ranking of the plugins in rough order of most favorite to "it's OK" and whether I prefer the plugin or Euro version:

The synths:

#1 Loquelic: Plugin.
(The Euro version had independent knobs for oscillator frequencies, which made it a hassle to nail both the ratio and the overall tuning. This is SUPER EASY in the plugin.

#2 Basimilus: Plugin
(The Euro version always felt to me like it 100% wanted to be a badass drum synth and I just didn't need drums that much. The plugin, with its polyphony, invites all kinds of cool metallic/melodic sounds.)

#3 Manis: Plugin (but it's close)
(The Euro version has a useful drone mode when the envelope is fully CW; it also had a super heavy deep sound to it which I think the plugin gets 96% of the way to, and I feel like Profundity was a little different and more interesting. But the plugin makes it so much easier to individually modulate parameters with the envelope at different amounts, whereas the Bash parameter that assigns them all is just not great IMHO. For me the plugin wins because I owned the module twice and sold it twice, and now I can have it for occasional use without taking up rack space.

One of my favorite things to do with it is drop the octave but raise Saw Mod. The "fundamental" interferes with the perceived pitch in fun ways. Also this works great with Doom and Octavize on Ruina.)

also #3 Virt: Euro (but sorta close)
(The Virt Iter Legio module sounds altogether badass, even without stereo phase modulation. The plugin is okay overall but Harm mode takes it to the next level. Both the Euro version and plugin sound clearer overall than the Arturia Microfreak incarnation of these algorithms.)

#4 Cursus: Euro
(It seemed a bit more intuitive to me, somehow, and I think the way the internal sample rate rides with the frequency made it sound cooler.)

#5 Sinc: (I never used the Euro version)
(It's just kind of a basic synth and hard to get excited about compared to their more unique offerings. But it shouldn't be completely overlooked, especially because it's free.)

The effects:

#1 Imitor: Plugin.
(They added so many features and so much more control, it's no contest. Imitor quickly became my second favorite delay plugin, just barely behind Valhalla Delay. It does typical delay stuff, fancy multitap rhythms, very nice chorusy and reverby effects... awesomeness. The Euro version was kind of neat but honestly didn't impress me that much.)

#2 Ruina: Plugin
(I don't use distortion all the time, so a plugin version frees up Versio for other things. HOWEVER... it can sound good as a waveshaper for oscillators, particularly with Doom adding its animation... so I may try it in the rack again sometime.)

#3 Desmodus: Plugin.
(I feel like reverb is usually more of a job for plugins, unless I want it for feedback loops.

Personally I dislike the shimmer reverb mode and I prefer other plugins for synced delays... so the range of things it can do is bigger than the range of things I want it to do. It has a particular character, and when I slap it onto a channel I know right away whether it's going to work for me or not -- so I don't spend much time tweaking it.)

 

[JES]

"Uh huh, I see that."

 

[steubig]

The Ruina and Desmodus seem ok (at best) when used very sparingly.

i have a few of their versio deals.

they feel like spices you add a bit of, but do that well, imo. (i haven’t done an exhaustive search of modular effects.)

if you want big, lush strymon-type effects, best to get those. again, imo.

 

[scott sinner]

With this caveat, I wanted to share my new video here...
I love the ambient/textual stuff as a listener. But as you'll see as we're finishing up some videos with my new band, we basically put little bits of that ambient/textual stuff in more regular song structures. In all that, I appreciate every one of you on this thread. I lurk 3x as much as a post, but I have gotten some cool ideas here I'm using. And I enjoy your songs.

On this song, I used the Empress Zoia to ring modulate myself with myself. I am ring modulating my low left hand tapped notes with my higher right hand tapped ones through some extreme low and high passing, etc.

If you wanted to skip to just the heavily effected part, jump to 3:05.

But otherwise, I hope you enjoy the song, or the dancing, or the dancing and the song.

The dancing in this video started as a joke. The song is about the awkwardness of feeling out of place in your timeline. I asked the band "What would be most out of place for a video for this?" Drummer..."Um...a dance video. It doesn't even have a snare drum until the end. It is just about our least danceable track."

 

[lucas303]

But as you'll see as we're finishing up some videos with my new band, we basically put little bits of that ambient/textual stuff in more regular song structures.

That can make it have even greater impact! Really well done here...just right for the context.

 

[scott sinner]

That can make it have even greater impact! Really well done here...just right for the context.

Thank you. We have some other songs coming with more pronounced ambient influence. Guitar player also wades into this too on many songs, huge pedalboard, Helix, Boss ES8. ha, next video that is almost done, he plays feedback through 50% of it.

 

[dukeorock]

I interviewed with them a couple years ago, but Adam got the job instead of me. They liked me though and I've been beta testing for them since.

On the Vereor synths, I find setting the envelope to Percido and giving it a plucky shape, then assigning the envelope to one parameter and velocity to another, makes it pretty easy to find sweet spots even on the more abstract synths like Cursus. Or, ADSR but bring the release way back from its strangely long default, and assign pressure to something.

For Ruina, I feel like going through a specific routine works best with it.
- Volume in and out at 0dB
- Blend at max to start, bring it down later if you want.
- Phase and Center at the middle to start.
- All other sliders down fully.
- Bring up Saturate, tweak Center for tone, Overdrive for heat.
- Everything else is situational. Sometimes ludicrously awesome, sometimes comically bad, rarely anywhere in between.
- Modulating Phase with an LFO might be rewarding, or just find a sweet spot.
- Assigning the envelope follower to something sometimes works really nicely...

...

My personal ranking of the plugins in rough order of most favorite to "it's OK" and whether I prefer the plugin or Euro version:

The synths:

#1 Loquelic: Plugin.
(The Euro version had independent knobs for oscillator frequencies, which made it a hassle to nail both the ratio and the overall tuning. This is SUPER EASY in the plugin.

#2 Basimilus: Plugin
(The Euro version always felt to me like it 100% wanted to be a badass drum synth and I just didn't need drums that much. The plugin, with its polyphony, invites all kinds of cool metallic/melodic sounds.)

#3 Manis: Plugin (but it's close)
(The Euro version has a useful drone mode when the envelope is fully CW; it also had a super heavy deep sound to it which I think the plugin gets 96% of the way to, and I feel like Profundity was a little different and more interesting. But the plugin makes it so much easier to individually modulate parameters with the envelope at different amounts, whereas the Bash parameter that assigns them all is just not great IMHO. For me the plugin wins because I owned the module twice and sold it twice, and now I can have it for occasional use without taking up rack space.

One of my favorite things to do with it is drop the octave but raise Saw Mod. The "fundamental" interferes with the perceived pitch in fun ways. Also this works great with Doom and Octavize on Ruina.)

also #3 Virt: Euro (but sorta close)
(The Virt Iter Legio module sounds altogether badass, even without stereo phase modulation. The plugin is okay overall but Harm mode takes it to the next level. Both the Euro version and plugin sound clearer overall than the Arturia Microfreak incarnation of these algorithms.)

#4 Cursus: Euro
(It seemed a bit more intuitive to me, somehow, and I think the way the internal sample rate rides with the frequency made it sound cooler.)

#5 Sinc: (I never used the Euro version)
(It's just kind of a basic synth and hard to get excited about compared to their more unique offerings. But it shouldn't be completely overlooked, especially because it's free.)

The effects:

#1 Imitor: Plugin.
(They added so many features and so much more control, it's no contest. Imitor quickly became my second favorite delay plugin, just barely behind Valhalla Delay. It does typical delay stuff, fancy multitap rhythms, very nice chorusy and reverby effects... awesomeness. The Euro version was kind of neat but honestly didn't impress me that much.)

#2 Ruina: Plugin
(I don't use distortion all the time, so a plugin version frees up Versio for other things. HOWEVER... it can sound good as a waveshaper for oscillators, particularly with Doom adding its animation... so I may try it in the rack again sometime.)

#3 Desmodus: Plugin.
(I feel like reverb is usually more of a job for plugins, unless I want it for feedback loops.

Personally I dislike the shimmer reverb mode and I prefer other plugins for synced delays... so the range of things it can do is bigger than the range of things I want it to do. It has a particular character, and when I slap it onto a channel I know right away whether it's going to work for me or not -- so I don't spend much time tweaking it.)

Man, can’t thank you enough for such a detailed breakdown! It’ll be awhile before I go back to trying the BIA for anything but drums because it’s so amazing at. Want to load up my M8 with lots of loops/samples for this upcoming UK tour. May even make some synth loops and stems. I’ll try your fx tips when I get home Sunday!

i have a few of their versio deals.

they feel like spices you add a bit of, but do that well, imo. (i haven’t done an exhaustive search of modular effects.)

if you want big, lush strymon-type effects, best to get those. again, imo.

I don’t know that I do want tons of ‘lush’ Strymon type stuff often, but sometimes you don’t know until you get there. My eurorack effects do a decent job and I’m out of rack space anyhow. Keep threatening to do a separate skiff for percussion stuff to free up a bit of room in the main rack. My drum stuff is fairly minimal at the moment in the main rack due to space. I just have the Rample, Data Bender and about 42 HP of 1U space (small sub mixer, reverb, delay) dedicated to the rack at the moment. The Data Bender could be sacrificed as the Arbhar does a similar trick but way better to me. I know Arbhar is popular for ambient synth stuff and Data Bender is popular for drums, but I tend to do the exact opposite and usually prefer it.

 

[steubig]

Man, can’t thank you enough for such a detailed breakdown!

****

I don’t know that I do want tons of ‘lush’ Strymon type stuff often, but sometimes you don’t know until you get there. My eurorack effects do a decent job and I’m out of rack space anyhow. Keep threatening to do a separate skiff for percussion stuff to free up a bit of room in the main rack. My drum stuff is fairly minimal at the moment in the main rack due to space. I just have the Rample, Data Bender and about 42 HP of 1U space (small sub mixer, reverb, delay) dedicated to the rack at the moment. The Data Bender could be sacrificed as the Arbhar does a similar trick but way better to me. I know Arbhar is popular for ambient synth stuff and Data Bender is popular for drums, but I tend to do the exact opposite and usually prefer it.

and the rundown was great.

just my perspective. and a caveat of sorts for people wanting big verb sounds, etc. they seem better a little halos to my tastes.

btw, someone in my household may have received an arbhar yesterday.

 

[monsterthompson]

btw, someone in my household may have received an arbhar yesterday.

I love effects that look like typos.

 

[steubig]

I love effects that look like typos.

then you will love all the instruo modules.

even the company name looks like a typo.

 

[lucas303]

and the rundown was great.

just my perspective. and a caveat of sorts for people wanting big verb sounds, etc. they seem better a little halos to my tastes.

btw, someone in my household may have received an arbhar yesterday.

Very interested in your thoughts about it. I've been thinking a lot about Morphagene v. Arbhar v. Nebulae lately.

 

[JES]

A bunch of us have had one or the other. I had the Morphagene and Nebulae. Ask away!

In JES household news I spent yet another Saturday on the Mix That Would Not Die but I feel like I am getting close now. My wife checked them for me this evening and we think we might finally be good (enough) to go. The problem is that I’ve had hope before and been crushed.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

A bunch of us have had one or the other. I had the Morphagene and Nebulae. Ask away!

In JES household news I spent yet another Saturday on the Mix That Would Not Die but I feel like I am getting close now. My wife checked them for me this evening and we think we might finally be good (enough) to go. The problem is that I’ve had hope before and been crushed.

Mixing problems?
How so? Is it the duo project with your wife on drums?

 

[steubig]

A bunch of us have had one or the other. I had the Morphagene and Nebulae. Ask away!

In JES household news I spent yet another Saturday on the Mix That Would Not Die but I feel like I am getting close now. My wife checked them for me this evening and we think we might finally be good (enough) to go. The problem is that I’ve had hope before and been crushed.

serious question:

are mixes ever “perfect”?

seems to me they’re always compromises or in a state of “almost.”

imo, sometimes you just need to move on.

 

[dukeorock]

and the rundown was great.

just my perspective. and a caveat of sorts for people wanting big verb sounds, etc. they seem better a little halos to my tastes.

btw, someone in my household may have received an arbhar yesterday.

Looking forward to their thoughts

Very interested in your thoughts about it. I've been thinking a lot about Morphagene v. Arbhar v. Nebulae lately.

I’ve had a Nebulae2, Morphagene and now the Arbhar. They all have their pros and cons, IMO. For awhile I had the Morphagene and Neb2 in my rack at the same time. Got some really fun solo bass moments, but it was quite the time suck tweaking stuff. I like all 3, but the Instruo is my favorite at this point.

serious question:

are mixes ever “perfect”?

seems to me they’re always compromises or in a state of “almost.”

imo, sometimes you just need to move on.

This

 

[jbybj]

serious question:

are mixes ever “perfect”?

seems to me they’re always compromises or in a state of “almost.”

imo, sometimes you just need to move on.

Ones own mix, of one’s own material, I concur. But I’ve heard perfect mixes by others. Brian Eno has many perfect mixes, for example. So, what you consider a compromise, others may consider perfect.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Ones own mix, of one’s own material, I concur. But I’ve heard perfect mixes by others. Brian Eno has many perfect mixes, for example. So, what you consider a compromise, others may consider perfect.

very cliché to say but i’ll say it anyways:

perfection is a myth.

:insert your favorite philosopher of the month:

 

[JES]

Thanks everyone. Have a seat with your *virtual drink of choice* and I will tell you my tale of woe. The round is on me.

I'm definitely not going for perfect. Ok is fine with me at this point. The story is this is my dad rock band. I play in this band because these people are all dear friends. It is not "my" kind of music (maybe somewhat adjacent), but not only do I get to help my friends realize their artistic visions and hang out with them every week, I'd say a good chunk of our social scene likes this kind of music better than the music that I really like to play, which means we can draw a really good audience if the scenario is right.

That said, I should never have taken on mixing this record, and I have already resigned as our mixing engineer for all future possible recording. We tracked before covid, except for some overdubs, so that slowed stuff down. We went to a pro studio in town that has made records we all like. I recorded the vocal overdubs at home which was also super fun for the vocalists because they could take their time, though I think I made a poor mic choice in a couple cases.

Once tracking was done, there were arrangement problems that made some things impossible to mix, so we get into cutting parts. The lead guitarist and keyboardist are both very technically skilled but tend to run all over the vocals and each other. Luckily, my wife doesn't mind sitting with me and making aesthetic decisions about who to turn off when, while I work on the technical part, plus she says to blame her when people complain about their parts being deleted. Heart emoji.

It was tracked in ProTools, which I didn't know, so there was a lot of learning, then re-learning if I was away from the project at any point. It was also tracked on some vintage equipment with a much higher noise floor than I'm used to working with. Because a couple of the songs look like a broadway production when you pull them up (lots and lots of tracks) there is heavy cognitive load getting back into it, even though everything is well-labelled.

So I'd work on it, then the semester would start or life would happen, and then I'd have to stop, and 2-3 months later I'd have to re-learn ProTools (because I'd keep hitting the shortcuts for Logic and causing mayhem), which would add hours to getting back into it. Which would mean I wouldn't work on it unless I could commit a couple days at a time, which slowed down the whole thing. I think I finally know ProTools and now never want to use it again. #wallpunching. Also, Avid can go to hell. I've never had a DAW crash and hang so much on me.

In July we got it to the point where it seemed ready for mastering. Right before we took off on vacation for August I sent a sample track to two mastering engineers to see what they would do with it. They both pointed out technical problems that really needed to be fixed, which in the process required some re-mixing. At this point I was ready to give up and hire someone (did I mention I can be stubborn?), but the ProTools sessions were a mess because I don't think like a ProTools person, so automations are in weird places, etc, and it really wouldn't make sense to someone else.

As of last night, the mixes were with the bandleader, who will double-check our work -- I trust him, as he's not a "more me" kind of guy. Once he's ok, I send them off and our long national nightmare will be over.

In a way, the worst part is this has delayed other projects because I would feel bad releasing something else before this is done.

--The project with my wife needs a few more days of vocal tracking and will be an easy mix apart from one song that we may just re-record for the next go-around. We would have finished last spring if not for feeling bad about working on our own stuff before this is done. We've even got a cool artist lined up to work with us for the visuals.

--I have tons of electronic stuff and could basically assemble something now, or just focus on a concept for a record and do it. Same story.

This has been a learning experience for me?

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

26857534[/URL], member: 37282"]Thanks everyone. Have a seat with your *virtual drink of choice* and I will tell you my tale of woe. The round is on me.

I'm definitely not going for perfect. Ok is fine with me at this point. The story is this is my dad rock band. I play in this band because these people are all dear friends. It is not "my" kind of music (maybe somewhat adjacent), but not only do I get to help my friends realize their artistic visions and hang out with them every week, I'd say a good chunk of our social scene likes this kind of music better than the music that I really like to play, which means we can draw a really good audience if the scenario is right.

That said, I should never have taken on mixing this record, and I have already resigned as our mixing engineer for all future possible recording. We tracked before covid, except for some overdubs, so that slowed stuff down. We went to a pro studio in town that has made records we all like. I recorded the vocal overdubs at home which was also super fun for the vocalists because they could take their time, though I think I made a poor mic choice in a couple cases.

Once tracking was done, there were arrangement problems that made some things impossible to mix, so we get into cutting parts. The lead guitarist and keyboardist are both very technically skilled but tend to run all over the vocals and each other. Luckily, my wife doesn't mind sitting with me and making aesthetic decisions about who to turn off when, while I work on the technical part, plus she says to blame her when people complain about their parts being deleted. Heart emoji.

It was tracked in ProTools, which I didn't know, so there was a lot of learning, then re-learning if I was away from the project at any point. It was also tracked on some vintage equipment with a much higher noise floor than I'm used to working with. Because a couple of the songs look like a broadway production when you pull them up (lots and lots of tracks) there is heavy cognitive load getting back into it, even though everything is well-labelled.

So I'd work on it, then the semester would start or life would happen, and then I'd have to stop, and 2-3 months later I'd have to re-learn ProTools (because I'd keep hitting the shortcuts for Logic and causing mayhem), which would add hours to getting back into it. Which would mean I wouldn't work on it unless I could commit a couple days at a time, which slowed down the whole thing. I think I finally know ProTools and now never want to use it again. #wallpunching. Also, Avid can go to hell. I've never had a DAW crash and hang so much on me.

In July we got it to the point where it seemed ready for mastering. Right before we took off on vacation for August I sent a sample track to two mastering engineers to see what they would do with it. They both pointed out technical problems that really needed to be fixed, which in the process required some re-mixing. At this point I was ready to give up and hire someone (did I mention I can be stubborn?), but the ProTools sessions were a mess because I don't think like a ProTools person, so automations are in weird places, etc, and it really wouldn't make sense to someone else.

As of last night, the mixes were with the bandleader, who will double-check our work -- I trust him, as he's not a "more me" kind of guy. Once he's ok, I send them off and our long national nightmare will be over.

In a way, the worst part is this has delayed other projects because I would feel bad releasing something else before this is done.

--The project with my wife needs a few more days of vocal tracking and will be an easy mix apart from one song that we may just re-record for the next go-around. We would have finished last spring if not for feeling bad about working on our own stuff before this is done. We've even got a cool artist lined up to work with us for the visuals.

--I have tons of electronic stuff and could basically assemble something now, or just focus on a concept for a record and do it. Same story.

This has been a learning experience for me?

You’re a patient man my friend.
I would have dumped that mixing job to someone else faster the flies on $hit.

I’ve recorded my old band (that shall burn in the fire of hell) and did exactly that once the ocd tyrant lead singer/guitar would be on my @$$ non stop.
Read: texts at 2am in regards to the back vocals need to be 1.45689 db louder on the left side only.
(I’m barely exaggerating for real, the 2am text really happened more than once)

you have good intentions but it seems imo that it literally put a huge weight on your back