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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread
- Thread starter ttasselm
- Start date
I just finished my latest non-ambient track, which was all done ITB. Now it is time to witch gears and go back to hardware noises.
That one quickly became my favorite of the Alia line. I like how it's designed so (unlike with most FM synths) all of the parameters always have an audible effect.
re the venus theory vid: interesting . . . a decent music history lesson, but i'm a contrarian at heart, so i'll throw in my 2¢
one thing i think he overlooks is that melodic and harmonic complexity in western music has been "advancing" for at least 1,000-1,200 years. and there's often been a lot of backlash to it.
for example a lot of people thought beethoven (and wagner) was just *noise*. since baroque times (at least?) there have been a number of pieces that use "nature painting," which basically gets into non-melodic/harmonic information—so arguably extended techniques/noise (not "pure melody").
the rise of percussion in orchestra music towards the end of the 19th century definitely (imo) leads us into non-melodic/harmonic information—and the trend has continued (he touches on this a bit).
but i think it also comes down to people being bored with what they grew up with and wanting to create their own world. think of pop bass playing, it went from simple support to jazz-oriented stuff to groove to busier/more melodic playing to pared-down groove to busier groove again.
simple chord progressions these days? in the 50s I-iv-IV-V for hours? yeah. or just I-IV-V. pretty simple. (hell, mozart used those changes.) john lee hooker used *one* a lot of the time.
melodies these days are way more sing-songy; i guess it's what the kids want. interesting that he left out the "cookie monster" vocals in metal, which are a really good example of noise as melody, don't you think?
so, noise is the thing now, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of people doing fancy chords progressions in 10 years.
fwiw, i definitely tend to not wanting *any* melody or standard harmony in the electronic stuff i do. when i do improv music or actually write note on paper, it's all about "real notes" and lines (well, some extended technique thrown in). as an aside, there are a lot of younger folks doing improv who do *only* noise/extended technique.
anyway, it was an interesting and it's an issue i've thought a lot about (before his vid).
one thing i think he overlooks is that melodic and harmonic complexity in western music has been "advancing" for at least 1,000-1,200 years. and there's often been a lot of backlash to it.
for example a lot of people thought beethoven (and wagner) was just *noise*. since baroque times (at least?) there have been a number of pieces that use "nature painting," which basically gets into non-melodic/harmonic information—so arguably extended techniques/noise (not "pure melody").
the rise of percussion in orchestra music towards the end of the 19th century definitely (imo) leads us into non-melodic/harmonic information—and the trend has continued (he touches on this a bit).
but i think it also comes down to people being bored with what they grew up with and wanting to create their own world. think of pop bass playing, it went from simple support to jazz-oriented stuff to groove to busier/more melodic playing to pared-down groove to busier groove again.
simple chord progressions these days? in the 50s I-iv-IV-V for hours? yeah. or just I-IV-V. pretty simple. (hell, mozart used those changes.) john lee hooker used *one* a lot of the time.
melodies these days are way more sing-songy; i guess it's what the kids want. interesting that he left out the "cookie monster" vocals in metal, which are a really good example of noise as melody, don't you think?
so, noise is the thing now, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of people doing fancy chords progressions in 10 years.
fwiw, i definitely tend to not wanting *any* melody or standard harmony in the electronic stuff i do. when i do improv music or actually write note on paper, it's all about "real notes" and lines (well, some extended technique thrown in). as an aside, there are a lot of younger folks doing improv who do *only* noise/extended technique.
anyway, it was an interesting and it's an issue i've thought a lot about (before his vid).
i do think sarah belle reid is very good. her online persona is a bit happy for me, but she knows her stuff and has a large knowledge base—doctorate in trumpet/electronics. in person she is not that bubbly—and she plays her ass off. (i guess the disclosure is that i consider her a friend/colleague.)
It's Bandcamp Friday, and I have a new release too.
This one is dedicated to JES and to Paul Schreiber (aka paults), who I don't think knew each other but passed in the same week and are both missed.
Odd-numbered tracks use bass as the sole sound source, but with lots of layers and heavy processing. (This was usually Miezo, though in one case it was my bass ukulele.)
Even-numbered tracks:
- begin with DecadeBridge Sn, a tiny FM drone synth
- have Synthesis Technology modules (in VCV Rack form) somewhere in the middle
- also have other stuff in the middle (Eurorack, semi-modulars, software synth)
- end with Arturia Buchla Easel V
All my proceeds will be donated to the ACLU.
Notes are here.
This one is dedicated to JES and to Paul Schreiber (aka paults), who I don't think knew each other but passed in the same week and are both missed.
Odd-numbered tracks use bass as the sole sound source, but with lots of layers and heavy processing. (This was usually Miezo, though in one case it was my bass ukulele.)
Even-numbered tracks:
- begin with DecadeBridge Sn, a tiny FM drone synth
- have Synthesis Technology modules (in VCV Rack form) somewhere in the middle
- also have other stuff in the middle (Eurorack, semi-modulars, software synth)
- end with Arturia Buchla Easel V
All my proceeds will be donated to the ACLU.
Notes are here.
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Hey everyone... Bandcamp Friday. Today, I released my first live album, from that amazing show I played in Somerville, MA. I also lucked out and have an entire multicam video from the experience. The video was amazing, I've never worked with video artists this good.
Thread Drift: I was driving with the local Classical [sic] music radio station playing some early/mid 20th Century symphonic piece -- it might've been Shostakovich, I forget -- and I had a small epiphany about dynamics in orchestral music:
It is impossible to coax a pianissimo out of (almost*) any orchestral percussion instrument.
No matter what dynamic marking appears in the score, as soon as someone starts tapping on a snare drum, or a xylophone, or a castanet, or a temple block, or a glockenspiel, or cymbals, tambourines, guiros, Vibra-Slaps, etc. etc. etc. ...that instrument immediately appears in the audiated foreground. They cut through the entire orchestra incisively, and vie for the most important position in the listener's attention.
Which is why I probably prefer 20th (and 21st) Century works that don't fight that and embrace the "noise" aspect of percussion, versus late 19th Century works that tried to integrate those instruments into the harmonic/melodic fabric and wind up sounding (to my ear) imbalanced.
*I think tympani and gran casa can be exempt from this; you can play them softly and have them disappear into the background...probably as a direct result of their being low frequency instruments, and the Fletcher-Munson Curve.
i think it has a lot to do with the attack of percussion instruments. you can kind of include piano in this (and possibly guitars/bass guitars).
imo, the attack envelope on wind, brass and string instruments is not immediate; whereas, percussion generally is.
or course, using brushes, mallets, the odd superball and muffles on struck surfaces can mitigate this a bit.
when i use percussion samples, i often add some attack time so they meld more with the synth stuff.
imo, etc.
imo, the attack envelope on wind, brass and string instruments is not immediate; whereas, percussion generally is.
or course, using brushes, mallets, the odd superball and muffles on struck surfaces can mitigate this a bit.
when i use percussion samples, i often add some attack time so they meld more with the synth stuff.
imo, etc.
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Somewhere years ago I was watching some documentary about music, maybe it was one of the Ken Burns things or something. I remember the narrator explaining how the invention of electric amplification was a huge leap for dynamics. Previously, everyone had to play or sing loud in order to be heard in "the mix", but now with electric amplification a jazz singer could whisper into the microphone and the listener could plainly hear her.
I have some old 78 rpm records and a Victrola, and the earliest ones were recorded by having the whole band in the room playing and singing aggressively into a horn which printed the sound onto the master disk directly with no amplification, and the lack of subtlety this requires is part of what makes the music sound so dated.
David Byrne talks about the dynamics of percussion in his book - How Music Works. He goes into some thoughts about how early music in open spaces was more easily and clearly heard when it was centered around percussive instruments. However, as buildings became more common such sounds would echo and bounce in ways which were difficult to manage, so compositions moved to softer sounds which were actually enhanced by the natural reverb of a room/hall/church/etc. And that’s how we all ended up in this thread.
$799 USD is a chunk of change but on brand. It is not uninteresting, but I'm in no rush to buy one. I'll demo one at Perfect Circuit when I can.
It offers USB-C audio and MIDI connectivity, a TRS MIDI input, stereo headphone/line out, and assignable CV I/O. The accompanying VST3 plug-in allows for deep software integration, with high-resolution control over analog parameters and features like custom tuning scales, internal LFOs, and macro control via a 4x4 modulation mixer.
It offers USB-C audio and MIDI connectivity, a TRS MIDI input, stereo headphone/line out, and assignable CV I/O. The accompanying VST3 plug-in allows for deep software integration, with high-resolution control over analog parameters and features like custom tuning scales, internal LFOs, and macro control via a 4x4 modulation mixer.
the benefit of that recording method (at least the cleaned-up versions i have on cd) is that people really had to play and sing! no fixing it in the mix, etc.
and there's kind of an immediacy that really sparks me.
it is pricey, but they did some serious work with how it interfaces with a daw. after watching their introductory vid for a bit, i was really taken by their deep thinking and implementation.
that being said, it's probably not for me.
i do think that jason lim is a really top-notch modular designer.
