Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[Passinwind]

My roommate/bandmate/best friend in the late 70s & early 80s got his hands on an ARP Avatar guitar synthesizer as part of the ARP factory auction when they went out of business. The synth engine was basically an ARP Odyssey, a tried & proven design...it was the hex pickup and pitch-to-voltage converters that sucked major ass and essentially killed the company. Literally, everyone I know who was involved with ARP at that time admits that the Avatar was the reason the company went belly-up.

Yep. Just about everyone who was working there at that time saw it coming too. It was a pretty great place to work in many ways and I still have very fond memories.

 

[Spectrum]

i hate to admit that i have both.

the architecture is the same.

the keyboard has the ribbon; which the desktop does not have. probably the biggest difference. and one that i don’t use very often.

obviously, the keyboard has pitch and mod wheels. i do *not* use those the way most people do. i disable the normal functions and use them for modulation sources. imo, this really helps the sound design aspect of things. for example, i have a patch that’s pretty gnarly that uses the pitch wheel to change the panning. i was using it on a piece of music and decided that i needed the ability to change the attack so it wasn’t so harsh, so i used the mod wheel as the mod source for the envelope attack.

now, if you have something like a keystep or other controller, you could use that on the desktop. you could also use the macro knobs to do it. (the macro knobs are very cool.)

this thing had a ton of ways to modulate/mangle sounds.

the pads on the desktop have poly aftertouch, so you do *not* lose that functionality. however, the range is smaller than the four octaves of the keys version (maybe 1.5-2.0 octaves?), but you can define how the pads are set up for scales, etc.

for me the thing about the hs is the way it responds to the way you play it. i know some folks are using it for sequencing, but that’s not something i do.

why i love having both: this track is made up of about three tracks that have both hydrasynths going. each patch is made of both synths using the same basic programming with slightly different lfo speeds, envelope lengths, panning, mod values, etc.

headphones are useful.

Cool track, nice sound design.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Short clip cuz I really dig the tones coming out of that thing. Came up random on my YT feed.
Onboard fx are tasty asf.

 

[dukeorock]

Short clip cuz I really dig the tones coming out of that thing. Came up random on my YT feed.
Onboard fx are tasty asf.

At its price point I’m guessing a lot of folks are gonna try one to see if it’s right for them. Effects are nice. I’m trying to decide if there’s anything on it that can’t be done on an Octatrack

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

At its price point I’m guessing a lot of folks are gonna try one to see if it’s right for them. Effects are nice. I’m trying to decide if there’s anything on it that can’t be done on an Octatrack

I thinking you're more than ok with the octatrack.
The polyend would be cool but not necessarily a huge addition to your current set up. (Just thinking out loud here....)

 

[cosmicevan]

i hate to admit that i have both.

the architecture is the same.

the keyboard has the ribbon; which the desktop does not have. probably the biggest difference. and one that i don’t use very often.

obviously, the keyboard has pitch and mod wheels. i do *not* use those the way most people do. i disable the normal functions and use them for modulation sources. imo, this really helps the sound design aspect of things. for example, i have a patch that’s pretty gnarly that uses the pitch wheel to change the panning. i was using it on a piece of music and decided that i needed the ability to change the attack so it wasn’t so harsh, so i used the mod wheel as the mod source for the envelope attack.

now, if you have something like a keystep or other controller, you could use that on the desktop. you could also use the macro knobs to do it. (the macro knobs are very cool.)

this thing had a ton of ways to modulate/mangle sounds.

the pads on the desktop have poly aftertouch, so you do *not* lose that functionality. however, the range is smaller than the four octaves of the keys version (maybe 1.5-2.0 octaves?), but you can define how the pads are set up for scales, etc.

for me the thing about the hs is the way it responds to the way you play it. i know some folks are using it for sequencing, but that’s not something i do.

why i love having both: this track is made up of about three tracks that have both hydrasynths going. each patch is made of both synths using the same basic programming with slightly different lfo speeds, envelope lengths, panning, mod values, etc.

headphones are useful.

Appreciate the reply. I have junky controller tuat I used to use w my ipad for soft synths and pianos...I had this vision of having the hydrasynth replace that controller and over time adding some desktop pieces, maybe a moog mother 32 or the like and using the hydrasynth as my main controller since it would also be a synth I figured I could get pretty wild. Looks like the keys version is out of stock everywhere again so I have some time.

If you could get just one would it be the full keys or desktop?

 

[steubig]

Appreciate the reply. I have junky controller tuat I used to use w my ipad for soft synths and pianos...I had this vision of having the hydrasynth replace that controller and over time adding some desktop pieces, maybe a moog mother 32 or the like and using the hydrasynth as my main controller since it would also be a synth I figured I could get pretty wild. Looks like the keys version is out of stock everywhere again so I have some time.

If you could get just one would it be the full keys or desktop?

in your case: you have a junky controller and you want to drive other synths. if those other synths can handle poly after, imo, it’s a no-brainer—get the keyboard version. (a lot of synths seem to be able to receive poly after; for example, the developer of the iridium made a point of saying it received pat.)

that being said, it’s solidly built (a bit heavy), so it’s not like taking a keystep around with you. (i have one of those as well.)

but, say you want to do something impromptu with some folks (whenever we play with people again), conceivably you could take the hs and not have to take any other synth things.

anyway, i first got the keys version because of the expressive possibilities. i had a peak, but decided i liked the hs better, so boxed up the peak with the intention of selling it (then covid hit) and got the hs desktop to go with the keys version.

[ps, hs programs with poly after will *not* respond the same way to something that doesn’t send pat. there was a guy on the hs fb group who was pissed that his hs desktop programs with pat didn’t respond properly to a keystep—which only sends mono after. pat does respond to rhe desktop’s pads.]

 

[monsterthompson]

I keep wondering if the interest in Zoia will spill over to the Poly Digit. It looks to have some advantages with a touch screen interface. However, there aren’t a lot of demo/promo videos for it.




It’s a few bucks cheaper than Zoia. It has an SVT sim and IR capability, vs Zoia’s guitar-only cab sim module. It has 4 in/out instead of 2. It has two control knobs which auto-map to the active module selected.
@ugly_bassplayer would smash the screen, but the rest of us could probably use it safely

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I keep wondering if the interest in Zoia will spill over to the Poly Digit. It looks to have some advantages with a touch screen interface. However, there aren’t a lot of demo/promo videos for it.




It’s a few bucks cheaper than Zoia. It has an SVT sim and IR capability, vs Zoia’s guitar-only cab sim module. It has 4 in/out instead of 2. It has two control knobs which auto-map to the active module selected.
@ugly_bassplayer would smash the screen, but the rest of us could probably use it safely

Holy crap!!!!
Link to the specs?!?!?!

Edit....found it!!! RTFM!!!!!

 

[monsterthompson]

Holy crap!!!!
Link to the specs?!?!?!

Edit....found it!!! RTFM!!!!!

It seems to be missing the oscillators, keyboard, and sequencer features of the Zoia, which isn’t exactly a deal breaker for me. Let me know what you see in the manual.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

It seems to be missing the oscillators, keyboard, and sequencer features of the Zoia, which isn’t exactly a deal breaker for me. Let me know what you see in the manual.

Ouch....no oscillators?!?!?!?
No sequencer.....???
Dealbreaker for me.....

 

[monsterthompson]

Ouch....no oscillators?!?!?!?
No sequencer.....???
Dealbreaker for me.....

Not that I’ve seen in the videos but I’m not certain.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Not that I’ve seen in the videos but I’m not certain.

I've been on the fence for the Zoia for quite a bit.....but man the prices have gone up even more since all this fubar.....
Will download the manual later today for the poly.
But i cant compare with the zoia.....since ive never used it. Share anything you can find would be greatly appreciated.

It seems like the perfect sound manipulation device
(Mad scientist laugh)

Can the Zoia handle line level input???

 

[monsterthompson]

Can the Zoia handle line level input???

It’s got a 6 and 12 dB pad available on the input, along with output gain controls. I haven’t had any clipping issues, but I’m not sure how it’s rated. A quick google doesn’t seem to reveal any issues.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

It’s got a 6 and 12 dB pad available on the input, along with output gain controls. I haven’t had any clipping issues, but I’m not sure how it’s rated. A quick google doesn’t seem to reveal any issues.

Read tfm.....no oscillators....just lfo....
Dealbreaker for me.
It can self oscillate....but at that price I would definitely need some oscillators to use it as a standalone.

Seems like an interesting tool none the less.

 

[dukeorock]

I thinking you're more than ok with the octatrack.
The polyend would be cool but not necessarily a huge addition to your current set up. (Just thinking out loud here....)

I think I feel the same way. In the short term, I want to really explore the EssenceFM. It has to potential to be a full blown ‘workstation’ when you add external sequencing. Drum sounds are killer, pads as big as you like, deep low end...it’s all there, but what remains to be seen is how well I’ll be able to program it, get the sounds I’m after, modulate those sounds in real time, etc. Most likely within two weeks I’ll be over the moon or it will have been returned to Perfect Circuit to fund something else. On paper it seems like my kinda machine.
Ive thought about this a lot and wonder how you all prefer building songs? I tend to prefer doing the majority of the work in one ecosystem and only add another outside element only if I just can’t make in work in the main system. So, I either try to do everything on the Model:Cycles, or just the Octatrack, or just the eurorack. If I try to use everything at once, option paralysis kicks in and nothing gets done

 

[steubig]

I think I feel the same way. In the short term, I want to really explore the EssenceFM. It has to potential to be a full blown ‘workstation’ when you add external sequencing. Drum sounds are killer, pads as big as you like, deep low end...it’s all there, but what remains to be seen is how well I’ll be able to program it, get the sounds I’m after, modulate those sounds in real time, etc. Most likely within two weeks I’ll be over the moon or it will have been returned to Perfect Circuit to fund something else. On paper it seems like my kinda machine.

this totally makes sense to me. it seems amazingly deep, but how you get to all that depth is gonna be key. do they have a computer editor for it? seems like that could be useful.

Ive thought about this a lot and wonder how you all prefer building songs? I tend to prefer doing the majority of the work in one ecosystem and only add another outside element only if I just can’t make in work in the main system. So, I either try to do everything on the Model:Cycles, or just the Octatrack, or just the eurorack. If I try to use everything at once, option paralysis kicks in and nothing gets done

interesting. i do have problems mixing things that have different parameters. for instance, notated stuff that uses electronics is dicey for me cause the breadth of “fuzz” can be huge; whereas an alto saxophone or a violin kind of is what it is.

on the other hand, when i’m doing things that are more “sonic” in nature, i try to make up the parameters before i start. then i stick to them as much as possible. for instance, “this piece is about how overtones decay in piano chords, and i’ll be using synthesizer and light percussion to augment those sounds.” basically i try to imagine a sound world, think about it for a while, work up some preliminary material (in that case, the chords) and then explore it.

so, in your case, you could set out with the express purpose of integrating the octatrack and the eurorack in a very specific and limited way. (trying to speak to the options anxiety here.)

my 2¢

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I think I feel the same way. In the short term, I want to really explore the EssenceFM. It has to potential to be a full blown ‘workstation’ when you add external sequencing. Drum sounds are killer, pads as big as you like, deep low end...it’s all there, but what remains to be seen is how well I’ll be able to program it, get the sounds I’m after, modulate those sounds in real time, etc. Most likely within two weeks I’ll be over the moon or it will have been returned to Perfect Circuit to fund something else. On paper it seems like my kinda machine.
Ive thought about this a lot and wonder how you all prefer building songs? I tend to prefer doing the majority of the work in one ecosystem and only add another outside element only if I just can’t make in work in the main system. So, I either try to do everything on the Model:Cycles, or just the Octatrack, or just the eurorack. If I try to use everything at once, option paralysis kicks in and nothing gets done

Any specific questions in regards to my workflow or "how I build" ideas???

I have hard time.trying to answer your question since I try to vary and change things up often. Trying to stay "versatile" is important imo. If I mix or remix a band I need to stay sharp on ableton but at the same time I have to be on point to create something with a minimal set up like just my SP and my 4 track.

One constant for the past year or so is using the SP for sample chopping (no computer) and only using my dual rig pedal board, bass and 4 track to write songs for my band.

For the "noise" synths.....it can change on a dime.
But lately its been synths,2 or 3 way splitter, mixer , 4 track.
(I need help....I'm severely addicted to these synths. I have to keep myself from blowing up my wallet.)

Hope this "helps" or answers any questions you might have....

 

[dukeorock]

That’s great input! I like to hear how others process things.

I like to switch things up a fair amount too, if only because it’s more fun for me and different little setups can lead to new ways of thinking.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

different little setups can lead to new ways of thinking.

This guy gets it!!!