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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

#14,781
The Triplicate record is fabulous. A very young Steve Coleman with two giants.

I dig the earlier SC stuff with Reggie Washington on bass and Gene Lake on drums. Those guys can groove playing morse code.

I very much appreciate what that band is doing, but I stopped listening some time ago. I think my favorite records were when he was using voices within his concept pretty heavily, with the brilliant Jen Shyu, and sometimes with more than one voice. I loved that period.

Steve's idea is SUPER deep. I believe using long form claves that reference scientific and astrological ideas...way over my head. I can appreciate it for sure, but most days that's not what I'll put on for enjoyed listening. I think there's a fine line of being a musician who's just doing their work, and the ego aspect of "we're incredible...look at what we can do". I don't know which category Steve's band are in, but it's tough not to get that sense with some of the more math oriented jazz musicians. It takes unbelievable musicianship to be able to do some of this stuff, though. That's impressive whether I like the music or not.

I would suggest checking out the music of Brian Krock. His band liddle, and his big band called Big Heart Machine. One of the sweetest humans that I met in NY, and a super deep thinker. He's working with some pretty complicated concepts, but his sense of melody and beauty always shines through.
 
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#14,783
emjazz said:
using long form claves that reference scientific and astrological ideas...[snip]...I think there's a fine line of being a musician who's just doing their work, and the ego aspect of "we're incredible...look at what we can do".
Click to expand...

I'll be the first to admit that some of the musical concepts I've explored as a composer/improvisor and some of the music I enjoy listening to can be based on fairly heady concepts...but the bottom line is, is any of that audible?

If the listener can't hear that there's an underlying clave -- regardless of whether that clave is based on planetary motion, or the statistical distribution of interstellar dust, or the wavelength of a particular hue of light, or the size of the crap his dog just took -- than the composer is just wanking.
 
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#14,784
Bob_Ross said:
I'll be the first to admit that some of the musical concepts I've explored as a composer/improvisor and some of the music I enjoy listening to can be based on fairly heady concepts...but the bottom line is, is any of that audible?

If the listener can't hear that there's an underlying clave -- regardless of whether that clave is based on planetary motion, or the statistical distribution of interstellar dust, or the wavelength of a particular hue of light, or the size of the crap his dog just took -- than the composer is just wanking.
Click to expand...

I'm of the mind that anyone can do anything that they want to do. It's their music. I will like it or not like (or feel indifferent) because of my own experience and tastes. It's all good. Because I'm so hard on myself that seems to extend to listening to music as well. A difficult thing to turn off.

I've always been a very emotional person/musician. Once I began to learn about music in a deeper way my curiosity kicked in, and now I feel more balanced for sure with how I compose. My playing is another story. Still trying to balance that, as it's usually my emotional brain that takes over. That has it's positives and it's negatives for sure.
 
#14,786
Bob_Ross said:
If the listener can't hear that there's an underlying clave -- regardless of whether that clave is based on planetary motion, or the statistical distribution of interstellar dust, or the wavelength of a particular hue of light, or the size of the crap his dog just took -- than the composer is just wanking.
Click to expand...
emjazz said:
I'm of the mind that anyone can do anything that they want to do. It's their music. I will like it or not like (or feel indifferent) because of my own experience and tastes. It's all good.
Click to expand...

Upon re-reading my statement (above) I realized I should maybe further qualify it:
- A composer is not "just wanking" if (for example) their composition is based on a long-form rhythmic clave derived from the statistical distribution of interstellar dust, even if that clave isn't audible;
- A composer is "just wanking" if they believe that their composition being based on a long-form rhythmic clave derived from the statistical distribution of interstellar dust somehow imbues it with more depth, meaning, or aesthetic value than can be gleaned by simply listening to it.

Which is not to say that one can't better appreciate music by understanding its construction. But the "aboutness" of a piece of music is rarely the same "aboutness" as that which led to its development.
 
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#14,788
Bob_Ross said:
Upon re-reading my statement (above) I realized I should maybe further qualify it:
- A composer is not "just wanking" if (for example) their composition is based on a long-form rhythmic clave derived from the statistical distribution of interstellar dust, even if that clave isn't audible;
- A composer is "just wanking" if they believe that their composition being based on a long-form rhythmic clave derived from the statistical distribution of interstellar dust somehow imbues it with more depth, meaning, or aesthetic value than can be gleaned by simply listening to it.

Which is not to say that one can't better appreciate music by understanding its construction. But the "aboutness" of a piece of music is rarely the same "aboutness" as that which led to its development.
Click to expand...

I think that it's important to question what we do and how we do it, in anything in life....but not to the point where we stop ourselves from doing things...quite the balance I feel. I've seen some brilliant musicians go from budding artists to a career of choices made solely by ego....but I suppose that's alright as well. Maybe that's an inevitable part of their journey. I can only make decisions for myself as to what constitutes an honest way of living every day life, as well as within art. It's constant work, isn't it?

Put another way, I remember going to see three brilliant musicians play a gig in Brooklyn. Two are quite well known and revered in modern jazz. The tunes were by the drummer, and sounded that way. Very difficult music rhythmically. The fact that they could play those things was mind blowing, but I felt nothing. I walked away thinking "that was really cool, and I never want to write or play that way.".....and really, that was super helpful for me to decide in that moment. They seemed really pleased with how the music went (as they should have...they nailed it!)....and I also walked away further boiling down who I wanted to be as a musician in the world. Seems like a win/win to me. (addendum....I wasn't so positive walking away from that gig as I was with some time to think about it....my ego immediately got involved with how I was feeling....another good lesson from that experience).
 
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