Ampeg - Are You Listening?

[coreyfyfe]

Ampeg THINKS they have answered this request with the 410HLF and 212AV.

But those of us who hate ports and tweeters know better.

I like my 8x10 and all, but I've been using a 2x 112AV stack a lot lately and it's darn close. A knob tweak or two and it's in the same territory (I leave the tweeters off).

My current amp/cab roster is a 72 8x10, 75 B40 4x10, and the two 112AVs with either a 74 SVT or 73 V4. My favorite combo is still probably the V4 and 4x10, but ports and tweeters be damned I'm not unhappy with any of them.

 

[leemelone]

Why is a 4 ohm cab so important to you?

Because I have a SVT CL that puts out 300 watts into 4 ohms. If I run it with a single 8 ohm cabinet it reduces the power and or volume greatly and it's probably not a great idea to run the amp at that load long term.

 

[leemelone]

Ampeg THINKS they have answered this request with the 410HLF and 212AV.

But those of us who hate ports and tweeters know better.

The cab the OP describes would certainly reduce the number of posts in this forum by 10% or so, as "What small cab should I get for my SVT" is something of an eternal topic here (again, because the above options are simply not satisfactory solutions).

That's right damn it, I want a mini fridge!

 

[dmac1961]

Quite frankly, I think it's because you couldn't build a 410 that could adequately handle the awesomeness of an SVT.

 

[Slpbass81]

I want a single 410 that is 4 ohm and has the tone of an 810. The tight round punchy 200 hz thump that I can drive with my SVT CL. No ports, no horn. The 410he is 8 ohm so it's not even a contender.The 410hlf doesn't have the low mid punch and I'm all about that bass (no treble). Real men don't need no stinkin' horn. The 810e is and always will be the Ampeg standard so why not try to capture that sealed cabinet punch in a smaller, more portable single 410? I absolutely love my 810e's tone but it's size and weight are just too much to move around all the time. Can't you just cut the exact same design in half and wire it to 4 ohms? I think the market for that would be huge!

If you start playing bigger gigs you won't need to use anything but an 8x10. Use it as a way of motivation or get the 212AV. Ampeg doesn't need to listen to the 10 guys on here who want 4x10's when all their main artists are good with what they currently offer.

 

[JimmyM]

Because I have a SVT CL that puts out 300 watts into 4 ohms. If I run it with a single 8 ohm cabinet it reduces the power and or volume greatly and it's probably not a great idea to run the amp at that load long term.

One other reason I just thought of why they haven't done a 410he in 4 ohms is that a SVT can toast a 410 that uses similar 10s. The 410hlf's speakers can take it but not so much the he's. Warranty issues would abound.

 

[leemelone]

If you start playing bigger gigs you won't need to use anything but an 8x10. Use it as a way of motivation or get the 212AV. Ampeg doesn't need to listen to the 10 guys on here who want 4x10's when all their main artists are good with what they currently offer.

Well that comment sure was nasty. FYI, I've played tons of bigger gigs in my life. My touring set up was an SVT and two 810e cabinets. Nowadays I've retired from the road and play smaller gigs where that rig would be over kill. Because I used that setup for so many years and loved the sound, it's hard for me to accept that I can't get the same tone (not volume)in a smaller package. I'm a lifetime Ampeg user and I think that any smart company should listen to what their loyal customers are asking for. It's clear to me that by the volume of posts here on TB about how to get the 810 sound in smaller package that there clearly is a demand for it.

 

[leemelone]

One other reason I just thought of why they haven't done a 410he in 4 ohms is that a SVT can toast a 410 that uses similar 10s. The 410hlf's speakers can take it but not so much the he's. Warranty issues would abound.

I never asked for a 4 ohm 410he. I want a 410 that can handle an SVT CL and has the sealed cabinet low mid punch like the 810. I wonder what the speakers they use in a Heritage 410 HLF would sound like in a sealed cab?

 

[Slpbass81]

Well that comment sure was nasty. FYI, I've played tons of bigger gigs in my life. My touring set up was an SVT and two 810e cabinets. Nowadays I've retired from the road and play smaller gigs where that rig would be over kill. Because I used that setup for so many years and loved the sound, it's hard for me to accept that I can't get the same tone (not volume)in a smaller package. I'm a lifetime Ampeg user and I think that any smart company should listen to what their loyal customers are asking for. It's clear to me that by the volume of posts here on TB about how to get the 810 sound in smaller package that there clearly is a demand for it.

I was joking around with that comment but even with a 4x10 it will never feel or sound like an 8x10. A 4x10 is down around your knees while the 8x10 is around chest height which you will feel and hear. I used to think about a 4x10 that could sound like an 8x10 but then realized nobody else in the audience notices the difference except for me, the sound guy and any bass players that are in the room. When I brought in my 212av with SVT-CL and my band members liked the tone better. I still prefer the 8x10 but if 4 out of 5 a sound better I go with that.

 

[leemelone]

I was joking around with that comment but even with a 4x10 it will never feel or sound like an 8x10. A 4x10 is down around your knees while the 8x10 is around chest height which you will feel and hear. I used to think about a 4x10 that could sound like an 8x10 but then realized nobody else in the audience notices the difference except for me, the sound guy and any bass players that are in the room. When I brought in my 212av with SVT-CL and my band members liked the tone better. I still prefer the 8x10 but if 4 out of 5 a sound better I go with that.

Fair enough but it came off as condescending and snarky. Even you say that you considered a 410 that sounded like an 810 so you must be one of "the 10 guys on here who want 4x10's". Trust me that this is doable. The secret of the 810 is four separate 210 enclosures inside the cabinet with no ports and no horn. Why couldn't you cut that in half and have a 410 with two separate 210 enclosures and reproduce the same sound? You might have to use different speakers that were capable of handling more power but it's absolutely possible to make a mini fridge. And I know that there is a market for it.

 

[callofcthulhu]

That's a lovely story.

You're a lovely story.

 

[Slpbass81]

Fair enough but it came off as condescending and snarky. Even you say that you considered a 410 that sounded like an 810 so you must be one of "the 10 guys on here who want 4x10's". Trust me that this is doable. The secret of the 810 is four separate 210 enclosures inside the cabinet with no ports and no horn. Why couldn't you cut that in half and have a 410 with two separate 210 enclosures and reproduce the same sound? You might have to use different speakers that were capable of handling more power but it's absolutely possible to make a mini fridge. And I know that there is a market for it.

Considered means I thought about if cutting the 8x10 in half would work but decided after doing some research it would not work. Which I assume the R&D team at Ampeg has done in the past. They know everyone loves the 8x10 and if they could recreate that in a smaller package they would.

 

[Hertz]

I want amps to have a 2 ohm tap.

 

[JimmyM]

I never asked for a 4 ohm 410he. I want a 410 that can handle an SVT CL and has the sealed cabinet low mid punch like the 810. I wonder what the speakers they use in a Heritage 410 HLF would sound like in a sealed cab?

Not great IMHO. The 410hlf speakers are a different design with a hollowed out and rounded back plate that allows the voice coil to travel farther, hence giving it those super low lows it gets. The porting also helps, but if not for the extra coil travel, then they would sound like any other ported 410.

At any rate, those of us who have actually played the 212av and not those who rejected it based on looks actually consider the 212av a pretty acceptable smaller substitute for the 810e. Very much that same type of sound. It's not a dead nuts tonal match, but it's not far off. Just turn off the tweeter and you're good.

 

[Slpbass81]

Agreed with what Jimmy said. Plus I like having the tweeter option at that size for when my strings are going dead or playing more funk music. Plus if I'm going to own two different cabs I don't want them to sound exactly the same.

 

[MJ_Sotti]

I gotta try a 212, and a newer HLF. I'm one of the "why not a 4 ohm 410" guys, and I get it...this stuff all matches up because that's the way it's designed.

the 12s seems strange, but so many of you guys rave about 'em so...

and it being said the newer HLFs are voiced different...

I'll give 'em a try

 

[One Drop]

I thought even the designer of the SVT has said you can run it all day long at 8ohms with the single Ampeg 410?

 

[10cc]

I thought even the designer of the SVT has said you can run it all day long at 8ohms with the single Ampeg 410?

I know I have. Many times. The only thing I noticed was the break up came sooner. Other than that it was fine and still is.

 

[drummer5359]

Not great IMHO. The 410hlf speakers are a different design with a hollowed out and rounded back plate that allows the voice coil to travel farther, hence giving it those super low lows it gets. The porting also helps, but if not for the extra coil travel, then they would sound like any other ported 410.

At any rate, those of us who have actually played the 212av and not those who rejected it based on looks actually consider the 212av a pretty acceptable smaller substitute for the 810e. Very much that same type of sound. It's not a dead nuts tonal match, but it's not far off. Just turn off the tweeter and you're good.

I'm really not sure why people don't want to believe in what the 212AV can do. It's one of those cabinets that just "works".

Whether I'm using one or two cabinets, I run my SVT 212 AVs with the tweeters off. Yes, it has ports. But it really does have similar tonal qualities to the 810 to my ears. It's clear to me that they designed this cabinet to get a certain sound, not to meet a specific specification. It is odd to me that two twelve inch drivers in a ported cabinet sound a lot like a mini fridge, but they do. And to me the resulting sound is what matters.

What I like most about the 212AV is that I can scale it up. When I add a second one it REALLY sounds a lot like a Fridge. In smaller rooms one cabinet gives me "that sound", just a little less of it. For a large room or an outdoor gig I can add the second cabinet for a great no excuses sound.

 

[Bassworship1]

I don't know how anyone could ask for anything more than what my Ampeg SVT Heritage 410 can give in the low end. This Cab is fantastic and gives me everything tonally I could ask. Always get compliments for my sound wherever I play. I have it paired with my Ampeg SVT 3-Pro head and its tonal heaven.