Ampless + IEM: Where is the Volume knob?

[Scottkarch]

I think one of the things that made the whole thread difficult, was that I don't think anyone really understood your question or could relate to it. I play with IEMs 9/10 of the time. I actually find that with my IEMs and a good IEM mix I set myself, that I can hear much more clearly any dynamic changes in the rest of the band.. ( two guitars and drums ). If I feel the guys kinda go quiet I notice it very quickly and it's much more obvious than it used to be with a loud stage volume. A previous post did say that maybe the other guys don't have a monitor mix, IEM or not, that allows them to work with dynamics.. In my experience, using IEMs allows you to hear everything better, including and especially dynamincs. So I'm trying to understand what you're trying to explain exactly since I don't experience it. I believe you're struggling with something and I'm wondering if it's not actually your IEMs. It could be, but all I have to offer is my experience. Could you try and explain again as clearly as possible what you are having problems with?

 

[bucephylus]

I think one of the things that made the whole thread difficult, was that I don't think anyone really understood your question or could relate to it. I play with IEMs 9/10 of the time. I actually find that with my IEMs and a good IEM mix I set myself, that I can hear much more clearly any dynamic changes in the rest of the band.. ( two guitars and drums ). If I feel the guys kinda go quiet I notice it very quickly and it's much more obvious than it used to be with a loud stage volume. A previous post did say that maybe the other guys don't have a monitor mix, IEM or not, that allows them to work with dynamics.. In my experience, using IEMs allows you to hear everything better, including and especially dynamincs. So I'm trying to understand what you're trying to explain exactly since I don't experience it. I believe you're struggling with something and I'm wondering if it's not actually your IEMs. It could be, but all I have to offer is my experience. Could you try and explain again as clearly as possible what you are having problems with?

OK. No, my IEM's work just fine; except that I am still on canal based buds vs molded; so they do come unglued at times, if I'm singing or cracking a smile.

Again, my comparison is between amp on stage bar gigs and ampless IEM bar gigs. In the amped format, any band I've gigged with the past 20 years has kept stage volumes where we could communicate with each other to adjust dynamics on the fly. IME, dynamics are a large part of what makes the performance successful. Having a bunch of decades of clubbing at this point, part of my role in bands I work with is keeping dynamics happening on stage. Things get softer or louder depending on the tune; which sounds really easy; but how many bar bands actually do it?

With IEM's stuck in my ear, I can't manage by walking around any more. Everyone is in their own little bubble. Sure you hear things better. But, how do you interact, if something isn't right? Or, how do you even know if something isn't right? Since your own personal feed is essentially perfect, but isn't what the audience hears. Obviously, this seems to be a pretty obtuse question; because, I keep trying to explain it, but, it's not computing. Bottom line is that dynamics have always been an interactive thing for me. IEM's have kind of put a stop to that way of playing.

It's true that, in orchestra, no one is managing dynamics by walking around. You rehearse it. And rehearse it. And rehearse it. You get the idea. But, there is also a whole lot more interactive listening going on and no one is singing and playing at the same time. And, you're not doing four hour long sets with 12 tunes per set. Every situation is different. I'm just talking about my experience gigging clubs and what I see as different moving that kind of act to a very different sound scene.

 

[Scottkarch]

Thanks for the reply. Your experience is quite different from mine. It is what it is. No biggie. In my band, dynamics are BETTER not worse with IEMs because we can hear each other better at a low enough level that it's more obvious to me that a change is happening. You keep going back to what the audience hears.. and that confuses me. If you run your instruments through the PA and have wedge monitors, what you hear already isn't what the audience hears. There is no way what you hear onstage is what the audience hears.. This part of your description is what I think is confusing to a lot of the posters here..

"But, how do you interact, if something isn't right?" I agree you can't talk to each other easily.. You mouth a couple words or point a little. If you walk right up and talk right to their ear, they can usually hear you. I'd say that doesn't happen more than once per show for us.

"Or, how do you even know if something isn't right?" I guess it depends on what the "something" is. If it's someoone playing the wrong note, I think IEMs make it easier to hear. If it's dynamics changing, I think the extra clarity of IEMs means you hear the dynamics more pronounced than on a loud stage with drums and amps and monitors. YMMV

I agree dynamics are a HUGE part of music. For my band, IEMs make that far easier to hear each other and react far quicker than on a loud stage. We feed off each other all the time. The drummer ESPECIALLY can hear us and react quicker by playing more quietly if we decide to "chunk" quietly in a piece of a song. Since I have such a great experience with IEMs I recommend trying some more.. but it's definietly true that some people just cant get used to the difference of IEMs/ampless vs wedge/monitors/amps. There is nothing wrong with that.