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... and the Berlin wall came tumbling down
- Thread starter PlanetEarth
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To be clear, I only ever discuss learning over here and never have suggested or said anything about mods on this forum.
Hi. Jeff here. I see that a lot has happened in two days. I read the comments before the moderator shut down the thread and, besides a little bit of heat and one guy who is angry with me for some reason, I have no idea why the moderators decided to shut down the whole thread. Frankly, I don't trust their judgement sometimes and I wish that they would have removed the couple of threads that offended them. Moderators are not really doing that well because they are reading more into things than are necessary. There always will be a couple of guys with a temper. But to shut down the whole thread is just bad judgement.
It follows me here because it is here that the unaware musician mingles with the aware ones. And some of the unaware guys just can't take it when comments that apply to them are discussed. I'm not to blame for anybody's bad conduct. I am, however, responsible for trying to drag a few musicians into place of musical truth, even while they are kicking anfd screaming while I do it!
Hi Jeff,
It amazes me that you still bother to come back after all this heat. You'll be pleased to hear I am taking you advice to heart in my practice (that, and I've started to practice Jazz again, which is something I've always said I would do but never did).
Thank you!
I come back because most people here are not like afromoose. Most guys are into music and, if it took a while to find these people, they seemed to have gravitated over here to see if what I say has merit. Also, we can chat points of music.
Look at you, for example! You are practicing again, practicing jazz and I imagine that you started to do this because of suggestions to look into this study method. Who can fault anyone for pursuing music to improve with. I am glad that you are doing this, and you are the reason (plus people like you) that I am here. It's fun do agree/disagree, but do it nicely. Really most people are doing that now.
My polarizing effect is that I stand for music and there are many who don't. This in itself is polarizing. The subject is loaded and because I stand for one side of the arguement and that people know this about me, I imagine that it is always going to be a truth that some polarization will go on here. What actually amuses me is when some guys run out of answers, their last contribution is that I have a giant ego. I don't have a giant ego! I have a giant.....well, that's for another time!
Hey Jeff! Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your columns in Guitar Player from the 80's. I was in college in the mid 90's when I started becoming interested in bass. Lucky for me the University's music library had a dark and dusty little room packed with old magazines. Thanks!
In music THE truth is that pure Cmaj7 chord tones are C, E, G, and B. There most certainly are pure, irrefutable, without a shadow of a doubt, hard eternal truths. But, art and interpretation are broad. (again, the separation between academics and art.) There is no doubt whatsoever that the facts are the facts, and there is no doubt whatsoever that most bass players don't know them. This is why I am here!
Still, I liked your thinking! And I know a lot of people who agree with you! And I do as well in many points of philosophy!
You are welcome! Those columns helped me to grow as a musician/teacher. So I owe that period a great debt.
Billnc is one of the most clear, level headed guys on these threads. There are a few others, and over time, I'd be pleased to acknowledge you all (I know who the good guys are). Sgt. Rock is also a very clear headed guy and I enjoy reading his thoughts.
Philosophers et al. have debated rationally for centuries for the sake of education and enlightenment, often taking a side that were opposite their personal beliefs; realizing this is how one really comes to understand something fully.
No one does this anymore, everyone just wants to argue. It's always easier to dismiss someone as being wrong and continue on - the inverse means having to reflect on ones self, come to terms with the possibility that what you know is wrong and subsequently take action to rectify it. The reality of it however is that the later is the only one that presents itself as a forward-moving, positive reaction; in my experience and IMHO.
-PE
Yes, indeed! You are correct! And what is this title of this great heated fury that comes up from time to time, especially over here? Musical content vs non-musical content! Is the topic worthy of the heat that many input into their discussions sometimes? Some think so!
The truth is, many people don't know their subject matter. They are emotionally invested in learning beliefs that are threatened when a guy like me says that these methods don't work to help one to improve. What interests me is that so many guys are willing to go down with the ship defending a topic that they really don't know much about. This is why I have that polarizing effect; I offer two options only, either musical improvement or no musical improvement. This doesn't leave one with much wiggle room and I do this on purpose.
Oh, how I yearn for a mature place to hang and discuss music as brothers and sisters, instead of this other nonsense.
We are very lucky to have an educator and musician of Jeff's caliber here with us. My thought is this, if you don't like what the man has to say, stay out of the threads that he participates in. It's pretty easy...you probably won't see Jeff in a "What bass is good for Metal" thread...but a thread that is specific to education, etc. is one where you'll most likely find him.
I believe that the moderators have a tough job here at times but need to look at the overall thread before taking action. There is good information out there and there will always be people who take fun in sabotaging that info however they can. Those folks need to be warned, their posts removed but the threads should remain open so that non-disruptive people can benefit from the information.
We can't just shut things down when they get uncomfortable.
Jeff, you are bad-a$$ player and a first rate educator. I'm glad that you are not dis-swayed by those who seem to have it out for you.
I believe that the moderators have a tough job here at times but need to look at the overall thread before taking action. There is good information out there and there will always be people who take fun in sabotaging that info however they can. Those folks need to be warned, their posts removed but the threads should remain open so that non-disruptive people can benefit from the information.
We can't just shut things down when they get uncomfortable.
Jeff, you are bad-a$$ player and a first rate educator. I'm glad that you are not dis-swayed by those who seem to have it out for you.
People who can't question their ideas when criticized will end up repeating the same things over and over with the same results. Most will not get very far and become angry at anybody who represents success. Those who represent success (like Mr. Berlin) will usually have a philosophy that runs counter to those stuck in a cycle of repeated patterns and no progress. People who can't read music well enough to teach it or read professionally will react in extreme anger when faced with the fact that reading music will be an enormous aid in the pursuit of a career in music.
It is a sad thing to see people lash out like afromoose did, honestly too many people react harshly to the ideas Mr. Berlin expresses. Funny thing is though, Mr. Berlin has a successful recording, touring, and teaching career to show for himself. What do the belligerent anti-Berlin posters have to show?
It is a sad thing to see people lash out like afromoose did, honestly too many people react harshly to the ideas Mr. Berlin expresses. Funny thing is though, Mr. Berlin has a successful recording, touring, and teaching career to show for himself. What do the belligerent anti-Berlin posters have to show?
Thank you for your input. And I agree about the moderators. I just don't seem them as doing that great of a job, at least as a group. Too many mean spirited comments go unmentioned by them, but on my threads they seem to be watching with great care. I don't like the inequality to attention that they provide.
I'm actually not sure what the problem about me is. I've asked a couple of times for those who have a problem with me to explain it and almost nobody responded. A couple of guys did say that my comments such as absolutely and 100% bothered them. I can appreciate this! But even when I put out an invitation to spell out what it is that I do that offends people, they don't respond. This tells me that even their anger with me is built on as much urban myth as their belief in bizarre learning methods, which also rest upon the urban myth regarding their validity. There is one fellow who I turned my back on and I have no intention to ever respond to him again. But, if anyone else chooses to spell out your grievance toward me, maybe I can help you to feel at ease about me.
Go for it because I want to clear the air.
Well, your problem is that you're asking irrational people to act rationally. There are too many people on here who believe that a disagreement means all out war. They don't know how to ask for clarification or accept a different point of view. So these people will never listen to what you're saying. They will never open their minds enough to see if what you're saying really works. These people have a great deal tied up their ideas.
I think a strong music education should start at birth really, and I don't mean having formal classes for infants (that would be silly!), but just exposing them to musical concepts and ideas the same way they are exposed to speech and grammar, the alphabet/written language, morals and customs, etc. Sesame Street-type programs expose them to things like numbers, letters, colors, and shapes, but music is just used as a background device to help feed those concepts into young minds, rather than being taught as a concept equal to those things.
Music education in early school years is weak and fleeting at best, more like arts and crafts for music rather than actual musical concepts being explored.
I certainly wish I had been exposed to common musical language/grammar/notation and some foreign languages from the day I was born; I would be more well rounded today. Those things would be second-nature to me rather than exotic or nearly alien concepts to my brain!
Music education in early school years is weak and fleeting at best, more like arts and crafts for music rather than actual musical concepts being explored.
I certainly wish I had been exposed to common musical language/grammar/notation and some foreign languages from the day I was born; I would be more well rounded today. Those things would be second-nature to me rather than exotic or nearly alien concepts to my brain!
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