Another Shooting

[Dr. Cheese]

U.S. News - Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin

It's official, the FBI is investigating Martin's death.

 

[onosson]

Are you sober? I'm not suggesting it means anything. I'm suggesting that Sav'n Bass couldn't possibly know to where Martin was running. That is all.

Ha! I'm quite sober, thanks.

I just did not get your point that he might have changed direction. Why does that matter? You didn't comment on the point I made that it seems logical that he probably was headed home before the encounter with Zimmerman. If he changed direction after ... so what?

Edit: You did say "You on the other hand are missing the point". That's why I was wondering what you were trying to suggest, in case it's not clear.

 

[jerry]

I know people like this guy, armed to the teeth and hoping to catch someone breaking in their home or shop and blow them away. They never think about the collateral damage and cause and effect, and almost always have one thing in common, somewhere along the line they failed the cop test.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I know people like this guy, armed to the teeth and hoping to catch someone breaking in their home or shop and blow them away. They never think about the collateral damage and cause and effect, and almost always have one thing in common, somewhere along the line they failed the cop test.

If this is what it looks like, Zimmerman failed the human test.

 

[bassguppy]

They never think about the collateral damage and cause and effect, and almost always have one thing in common, somewhere along the line they failed the cop test.

+1,000,000.


This is the first thing I thought when they said Zimmerman was in the local neighborhood watch.

 

[Starrchild]

"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about," Zimmerman told dispatchers, adding, "These @!$%#s. They always get away."



WOW!

 

[Munjibunga]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Obviously, I don't know how the investigation will turn out, but my initial feeling is that neighborhood watch person at minimum over reacted since he had already called the police and they were on their way. Zimmerman, the shooter is a Criminal Justice major. If this is any example of how he interacts with the public, at minimum, he should never be allowed to work in law enforcement.

For all I know, the shooting may be legally justifiable, but it was totally unnecessary because it there just seems to have been no reason for Mr. Zimmerman to confront the victim.

I'm with you on this one, Doc.

 

[mcnach]

Isn't this statement an assumption? Do we know he was doing nothing wrong?

If I didn't know better I would think you are only a troll, seriously :lol:

 

[malthumb]

U.S. News - Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin

It's official, the FBI is investigating Martin's death.

One step towards sanity.

 

[Relic]

U.S. News - Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin

It's official, the FBI is investigating Martin's death.

Good, it's about time!

 

[sloasdaylight]

I have a question to the people here out to hang Zimmerman and the Sanford P.D. Supposing that the FBI investigation turns up that there wasn't wrongdoing, and that there wasn't a cover up, what then?

For the record, I'm not defending Zimmerman, I think he's guilty of at least negligent homicide, if not maybe a murder 2 charge, but I'm interested to know if an FBI investigation will be enough.

 

[aborgman]

I have a question to the people here out to hang Zimmerman and the Sanford P.D. Supposing that the FBI investigation turns up that there wasn't wrongdoing, and that there wasn't a cover up, what then?

For the record, I'm not defending Zimmerman, I think he's guilty of at least negligent homicide, if not maybe a murder 2 charge, but I'm interested to know if an FBI investigation will be enough.

While I agree with Zimmermans moral culpability - I'm not sure he is guilty under Florida law.

As for whether an FBI investigation will be enough? Only if they find against Zimmerman or the Sanford PD.

 

[sloasdaylight]

While I agree with Zimmermans moral culpability - I'm not sure he is guilty under Florida law.

As for whether an FBI investigation will be enough? Only if they find against Zimmerman or the Sanford PD.

Agreed. I don't know that there's enough reliable evidence to get a conviction without a sympathetic jury. Considering how much of a **** storm this case has become though, I'd wager that if there was something immediately evident, the State's attorney's office would have made an arrest now, if for nothing else than political reasons.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I have a question to the people here out to hang Zimmerman and the Sanford P.D. Supposing that the FBI investigation turns up that there wasn't wrongdoing, and that there wasn't a cover up, what then?

For the record, I'm not defending Zimmerman, I think he's guilty of at least negligent homicide, if not maybe a murder 2 charge, but I'm interested to know if an FBI investigation will be enough.

I'm sure people will be angry if Zimmerman and the Sanford PD are cleared of any wrong doing, but it would be far, far from the first time that justice failed to be served in the death of a black person.

The more important question is if Zimmerman and the Sanford PD are cleared, how could anyone claim any sort of victory? I mean, what's the celebration in the death of good 17 year old boy? If anything, if Zimmerman and the police are cleared, people of good conscience, whether they are gun rights supporters of not, should make a serious effort to amend a law that would allow such a killing to go unpunished if that is what happens.

 

[Sav'nBass]

How do you know he was running home to his dad's house? I would dare say that we don't know......so does that make that statement irrelevant?

No. It does not.. and we DO know.

A volunteer captain of a Florida neighbourhood watch, who shot dead a black teen and then claimed he acted in self defence, had a 'history of aggressive tactics,' it has today emerged.

Neighbours in George Zimmerman's gated community, at Twin Lakes, near Orlando, had issued complaints about the 26-year-old to local police and the homeowners association before the February 26 shooting, a homeowner said.

Zimmerman has not been charged in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was gunned down as he returned to his father’s house with candy for his younger brother.

Martin had been visiting his father from Miami.

According to a police report, Zimmerman, who was patrolling the neighbourhood in his car, had initially called police to report a 'suspicious person in the area'.

Zimmerman was told to keep his distance, but before officers could reach the scene, there was some kind of confrontation between him and Martin.

The teen was shot once in the chest just yards from his father's home. Zimmerman claimed he had fired his 9mm handgun in self-defence and the police say they have no reason to suspect he is lying.

A resident, who attended an emergency homeowner's association meeting after the shooting on March 1, told the Huffington Post how 'one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home.

'It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics' in his neighborhood watch role, they added.

Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, who is leading the investigation into the shooting, and a member of the city council both attended the meeting, according to the homeowner's association newsletter. Neither were available for comment.

Read more: Trayvon Martin shot dead: Police say there's no evidence to dispute claim that neighbourhood watch captain George Zimmerman acted in self-defence | Mail Online

Isn't this statement an assumption? Do we know he was doing nothing wrong?

Yes we do. Zimmerman didn't say he was doing anything wrong.. He said "He looks suspicious" and assumed "He's up to no good.." All the kid was doing was walking. Although ... historically Walking While Black that has been punishable by death, so lets all just wrap this up and move on ...there's nothing to see here..

His family said he had gone to the store for some snacks to bring back home. He died with those snacks in his possession. Logic would suggest that he was bringing them back home.

Only to a logically thinking person.

Sav'n Bass made the assumption that Martin was running home. He does not know that, because none of the evidence provided so far proves that.
You, on the other hand, are missing the point. Just because Martin was, at one time, heading home, does not mean that he didn't change or alter his path, or head in a different direction after his encounter with Zimmerman.

I made no assumption. YOU are making assumptions. You said none of the evidence proves that WRONG .. the fact that he was closer to home that he was when Zimmerman began his actions, literally according to reports.. yards from his father's home.. dictates that he indeed was running in that direction. Which as I stated is exactly what I would do if I was a kid and some strange man was following me in a car and got out to accost me and did not state that he was a police officer.. I would run as fast as I could to the place where my identity could be verified and I could be protected from this person. The fact that Zimmerman got out of the car .. with his weapon tells me that he was prepared to shoot before he even got out of the car, and that he was intimidated by this person, otherwise he would have left the gun in the car. If Martin's route was deviated at all it was most likely in the panic of running from this perceived nut job following him.

The bottom line is this case stinks to high heaven. If this was in N.O. and the roles were reversed, even if the circumstances were the same .. there would be a lot of different reactions to this by a lot of folks .. and many similar ones by those who have eyes to see.

 

[guy n. cognito]

I'm sure people will be angry if Zimmerman and the Sanford PD are cleared of any wrong doing, but it would be far, far from the first time that justice failed to be served in the death of a black person.

The more important question is if Zimmerman and the Sanford PD are cleared, how could anyone claim any sort of victory? I mean, what's the celebration in the death of good 17 year old boy? If anything, if Zimmerman and the police are cleared, people of good conscience, whether they are gun rights supporters of not, should make a serious effort to amend a law that would allow such a killing to go unpunished if that is what happens.

It probably wouldn't be the first time justice wasn't served to any person, regardless of race.

 

[Phil Smith]

Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on scene. The young woman's parents asked that her name not be used, and that only an attorney could ask her questions.

Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - Yahoo!

The other crazy thing about this case is that Martin had a cell phone and the police had the cell phone but never checked the logs for the last person he called or that called him which would have allowed them to determine who he was and notifying the parents that their son had been killed.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - Yahoo!

The other crazy thing about this case is that Martin had a cell phone and the police had the cell phone but never checked the logs for the last person he called or that called him which would have allowed them to determine who he was and notifying the parents that their son had been killed.

Just one more example of the half-@$$ed job the local police did on this case. If the people in Sanford actually care about what happened, and just aren't in a hurry for it to go away, they need to really reform their police department so that the ball is never dropped like this again.

 

[malthumb]

I have a question to the people here out to hang Zimmerman and the Sanford P.D. Supposing that the FBI investigation turns up that there wasn't wrongdoing, and that there wasn't a cover up, what then?

For the record, I'm not defending Zimmerman, I think he's guilty of at least negligent homicide, if not maybe a murder 2 charge, but I'm interested to know if an FBI investigation will be enough.

As for whether an FBI investigation will be enough? Only if they find against Zimmerman or the Sanford PD.

I probably shouldn't be responding to this, since I am not, as you describe, "out to hang Zimmerman and the Sanford P.D.", but heck, I'll play along.

If the FBI finds that Zimmerman did nothing wrong and that the Sanford P.D. Acted appropriately, I would expect that they would provide significant detail to explain the entire sequence of events and how those events would add up to "unfortunate, but unremarkable".

The circumstantial evidence that is available today points to a scenario where Zimmerman's actions led to the death of a teenager who was simply walking home. That evidence includes statements from Martin's family about what he was doing before he left the home, where he was going, what was in his possession when he was found dead and where he was found dead, Zimmerman's statements on the phone to the dispatcher ("acting suspiciously", "high on something", "those black #%*#% always get away", "are you following him - yes - we don't need for you to do that"), the statements of other 911 callers as to what they saw and heard, the seeming lack of effort to identify who the dead person was, the very late information around Martin's phone records)

While none of these pieces of evidence of and by themselves points to "this is absotively, posolutely how it happened, no ifs, ands, or buts", they do point to a likely scenario and a likely callousnous in handling the investigation of the scenario by the SPD. I would expect that should they find that there are no real areas of concern, the FBI would explain exactly how they came to that conclusion.

Now, reverse the question....if the FBI finds that Zimmerman is culpable in Martin's death and that the SPD displayed ineptitude and/or engaged in a coverup, what then? Would you be satisfied that those who believe Zimmerman and SPD acted inappropriately we're justified in that belief? Or would you shrug it off as the Feds crumbling under liberal media and activist pressure?

 

[aborgman]

Now, reverse the question....if the FBI finds that Zimmerman is culpable in Martin's death and that the SPD displayed ineptitude and/or engaged in a coverup, what then?

Then they should be punished appropriately.

Would you be satisfied that those who believe Zimmerman and SPD acted inappropriately we're justified in that belief?

No. Because that belief (whether it turns out right or wrong) was not come to through actual examination of the evidence.

If I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow because my mom causes it to happen, I'm not justified in my belief because the sun rose.

Or would you shrug it off as the Feds crumbling under liberal media and activist pressure?

No, I would see it as the feds doing an appropriate investigation and coming to reasonable conclusions. The difference between them and the thread pundits are in the fact that they're actually going to examine the evidence before attempting to come to a "justified belief".