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Another Shooting

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#482
seventhson said:
indeed. i wonder who you could possible be talking about? ;)
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Oh, I'm most assured you think hes talking about me. Youve come to the conclusion that, since I've not directly and emphatically agreed that Zimmerman is a murderer, that I'm biased. Feeding that thought, I'm sure, is the fact that I'm a white southern male who is also a proponent of gun ownership and concealed carry. If he didn't look back, I'm sure he'd tell you that I'm " pro-Zimmerman", when nothing could be further from the truth.
 
#483
seventhson said:
indeed. i wonder who you could possible be talking about? ;)
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Funny thing is I am sort of talking about me. I tend to be one of the voices in these threads repeating, "we don't have the facts, we don't know..."

But some seem to be taking advantage of that and building up all sorts of genuinely plausible reasons why Zimmerman may (and should) get away with what he did. Zimmerman seems to have struck the lottery by being a legal gun owner out doing something that's legal for the most part - aside from 'apparently' chasing down and killing another person who, as the facts bear out, was unarmed and doing absolutely nothing illegal. Martin had every reason on earth to believe he was in danger - and the fact is that if my son were to find himself suddenly stalked by some dude in a car who then wants to talk to him - my advice to my boy would be run as fast as you can through backyards and do whatever you have to in order to get away from that guy. Yell "help me!" at the top of your lungs and try to get to safety however you can. If you have to, fight and fight like your life depends on it.

I would be a horrible parent if I advised him otherwise. My daughter too. No kid (and no matter how many here want to start picking nits about Treyvon being 17 which "could mean he was 8 feet tall and 300 pounds of MMA aggression") - he's a kid. Kids - even big ones - should not stop and talk to strangers rolling up on them in civilian vehicles - especially if they are trying to pass themselves off as something like a "neighborhood watch captain" - I'm sorry - even if Zimmerman was (which apparently isn't clear) - that's a red-flag BS cover if I every heard one and is a clear indication that whoever this yahoo might be, he's not someone a kid should be talking to - and more true, he's most definitely the EXACT model of the type of predator we teach our kids to avoid.

This story reeks to high heaven of everything that's wrong with profiling, allowing people to conceal/carry while STUPID, laws that give more value to protecting criminals than the public, law enforcement communities who are either incompetent or hamstrung by bureaucracy/politics - non of which bodes well for anyone.
 
#484
tZer said:
No kid (and no matter how many here want to start picking nits about Treyvon being 17 which "could mean he was 8 feet tall and 300 pounds of MMA aggression") - he's a kid. Kids - even big ones - should not stop and talk to strangers rolling up on them in civilian vehicles - especially if they are trying to pass themselves off as something like a "neighborhood watch captain"
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So....... by this statement,
you're saying that if he was 18 years old and a "adult", he should have stopped and talked?
Do you believe that would have changed the outcome?

Seriously, talk about nit-picking.
 
#486
tZer said:
Martin had every reason on earth to believe he was in danger - and the fact is that if my son were to find himself suddenly stalked by some dude in a car who then wants to talk to him - my advice to my boy would be run as fast as you can through backyards and do whatever you have to in order to get away from that guy. Yell "help me!" at the top of your lungs and try to get to safety however you can. If you have to, fight and fight like your life depends on it.
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As someone who was arrested (and convicted) for running from a creepy guy in a car eyeballing me (who just happened to be an undercover cop)... that wouldn't be my first advice.

My first advice would be: You're on a cell phone. Call the cops. Then walk (not run) to the nearest PUBLIC area and wait for the cops to show up.
 
#489
bass4u said:
Couldn't the kid have called 911 and state he was being stalked/followed/ harassed? What teen nowadays doesn't have a cellphone? The shooter should have never left his vehicle though.
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he was actually on the phone with his GF right before this all went down, but calling 911 - yeah- "shoulda coulda woulda" on that one... I think that everything hinged on Zimmerman's idiotic decision to follow this kid.
 
#490
aborgman said:
As someone who was arrested (and convicted) for running from a creepy guy in a car eyeballing me (who just happened to be an undercover cop)... that wouldn't be my first advice.

My first advice would be: You're on a cell phone. Call the cops. Then walk (not run) to the nearest PUBLIC area and wait for the cops to show up.
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We disagree. If the car is not clearly marked or if the driver fails to identify and prove that he is indeed a police officer, he's an unknown quantity who, as far as you know wants to hurt you.

Your situation sounds shady - and I imagine there's more to it - but if there isn't and you are just guilty of running from some unidentified person any lawyer worth half a cent would have gotten your case tossed.

Every 'stranger danger' scenario imaginable includes things like "lost guy looking for directions" - "neighbor looking for his puppy" - and what's to stop said dangerous stranger from simply saying, "I'm an undercover cop" or "neighborhood watch captain".

Sorry - no ID, run. This could easily be some dude out to rob your or worse - easily - it's on LEO (or other 'officially sanctioned services') to identify themselves to avoid just what you experienced. You cannot blame a kid (or someone older than 18) for being suspicious and even scared of some anonymous 'deputy Doright' claiming they are 'the authorities'.

As for reaching for a cellphone to call the cops - OK, how much more quickly to you think Zimmerman would have drawn and fired had Martin reached for his phone?
 
#492
Ya Know....... even though this event is a tragedy, the thing that I find interesting is the amount of public attention and outcry it has garnered.

I can reference many recent cases that people are not nearly as upset about (or even know about).
The attention of the media is what has caused this pot to boil.
And vocal celebrity's like Al Sharpton and Spike Lee. "The squeaky wheel syndrome".

Race seems to always be brought to the forefront when the victim is black, ever notice that?

Sheeple are so easily led by the media. Logic and reason are then cast aside in favor of an emotional response.

Now, like I said, I believe this to be a true tragedy, but from what I gathered, it ain't no hate crime.
The shooter was trying to protect his neighborhood, things got out of hand and went to a bad place.

Do I think that he should be held accountable for his bad decisions and subsequent actions - yes I do.
 
#498
nortonrider said:
Ya Know....... even though this event is a tragedy, the thing that I find interesting is the amount of public attention and outcry it has garnered.

I can reference many recent cases that people are not nearly as upset about (or even know about).
The attention of the media is what has caused this pot to boil.
And vocal celebrity's like Al Sharpton and Spike Lee. "The squeaky wheel syndrome".

Race seems to always be brought to the forefront when the victim is black, ever notice that?
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And in all likelihood, they won't be very comparable cases at all, based on your past posts. You seem to come into every thread discussing cases where black folks may have been the victim of discrimination and try to bring up some sort of "counterexample" to derail the thread--that I have noticed.
 
#500
I'm not trying to be a insensitive to the situation by drawing comparison to a comedy show, but this "stand your ground law" reminds me of Jimbo and Ned on South Park yelling "IT'S COMIN' RIGHT AT US!" before shooting an animal - in order to get around hunting laws by claiming self defense.
 
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