Anyone else feel like expensive basses are arbitrarily priced?

[Antisyzygy]

I wish someone who knows would just talk a little as to REALLY why the Foderas SO MUCH more. No harm intended here or calling out or anything disparaging meant so dont fire back with insults. So how about it?

I thought a representative came in this thread and actually explained it. I'm too lazy to check, so I'd suggest looking back earlier in the thread.

Usually the handcrafted artisanal stuff is more expensive no matter what product it is. You're paying some highly skilled people to spend many, many hours on your bass and to give it their undivided attention. Your also paying for the most expensive woods, finishes, decorations, etc.

That doesn't mean artisan products are always better than mass produced stuff. CNC machines are more accurate than humans for example, and mass production means you can swap parts easily for repairs. It's also cheaper, because a machine doesn't need to feed a family. A machine doesn't need to get trained for years. Machines don't need health insurance, food, shelter, etc.

Which is a better weapon for self defense? An AR-15, or a period-correct, artisan-crafted muzzleloader? This analogy isn't a good one for Fodera since they integrate the modern technology too, it was just to demonstrate my point.

 

[JaredBT]

I thought a representative came in this thread and actually explained it. I'm too lazy to check, so I'd suggest looking back earlier in the thread.

I saw Jason had chimed in... wanted to go back a few months ago and grab a quote from another gentleman who claimed that Jason from Fodera said "we here at Fodera put more hours in on our headstock emblem than most builders put into their entire builds". Hmm........

 

[JaredBT]

I saw Jason had chimed in... wanted to go back a few months ago and grab a quote from another gentleman who claimed that Jason from Fodera said "we here at Fodera put more hours in on our headstock emblem than most builders put into their entire builds". Hmm........

No one like a cooler headstock more than myself.

 

[JaredBT]

If companies can produce a truly 10k instrument the last thing I would ever want to do is bash them. Theres nothing wrong with enquiring however as to why they are that much.

 

[FlatwoundFunk]

I am sure this is in here but there exists a market for the extremely wealthy in any given product, from kitchen drawer knobs to bass guitars. Basically, if you want the uber-wealthy to buy your junk you have to price it out of the range of poor people, it gives the item "prestige" and "social status." It's basic sales stuff, the uber-wealthy do not care what is better they care what is more expensive.

Do you think a $300 plate of food taste better than a $30 one? It doesn't, it just keeps the riff raff from eating near your table.

I was with you until your food analogy. Cause I can tell you that a steak at Morton's of Chicago or McKendricks Steakhouse does taste better than a steak from Longhorns at double the price with no sides included.
FF

 

[20db pad]

I wish someone who knows would just talk a little as to REALLY why the Foderas SO MUCH more. No harm intended here or calling out or anything disparaging meant so dont fire back with insults. So how about it?

It really is the cost of having experienced skilled craftsmen doing hours and hours of hand work, paying for their skilled work and insuring them, as well as overhead like rent, taxes, utilities, and more insurance and more taxes. The cost of doing this domestically is not cheap, and running a business is very costly in NYC. Add to that expensive proprietary parts and rare woods, a fair margin, and a pile of incidental costs I'm leaving out, and there you have it. The Fodera shop is just that - a workshop. There are no Persian rugs, fancy office furnishings, or trendy juice bars there. Given the scales of economy involved, Fodera charges a fair price for what they deliver. Jason has an advanced degree in business/manuacturing of some sort, and if he could figure out a way to offer Foderas any cheaper without compromising company standards, he would and they would. I don't get the impression it's a money grab over there. A visit to the shop reveals this in very short order.

Fodera is not alone in having high priced guitars by any means. A quick look at any acoustic/Jazz box builder of repute will reveal the same numbers that Fodera throws around.

 

[FlatwoundFunk]

I've paid $300 for a pair of steaks at Morton's, and $30 for a pair of steaks at Sizzler, and they were definitely not of equal quality.

You are correct, however, about the lack of riff-raff at the higher-end joint.

View attachment 701801 serves considerably tastier steak than View attachment 701802

Ahhh, great minds eat alike. I love Morton's. Can't afford it anymore, but I ALWAYS recommend them and live through others experiences.drool
FF

 

[JaredBT]

It really is the cost of having experienced skilled craftsmen doing hours and hours of hand work, paying and insuring them, as well as overhead like rent, taxes, utilities, and more insurance. The cost of doing this domestically is not cheap, and running a business is very costly in NYC. Add to that expensive proprietary parts and rare woods, and a fair margin, and there you have it. The Fodera shop is just that - a workshop. There are no carpets, fancy office furnishings, or trendy juice bars there. Given the scales of economy involved, Fodera charges a fair price for what they deliver.

Fodera is not alone in having high priced guitars by any means. A quick look at any acoustic/Jazz box builder of repute will reveal the same numbers that Fodera throws around.

Whatever, for the last 15 years Ive had my shop in so cal - one of the most expensive states in the US to do business in, with all the insurances, taxes and work comp, producing art by the way and still.... that doesnt tell me much. Oh, I have a 100 feet of carpet though in my office.... cmon, lets hear it... the woods are sourced from x and the preamps are special and they cost y and so on.... its super easy to talk about cost of goods sold... lets talk about the goods... heck it might generate some more sales for them.... we can talk about commission later.

 

[20db pad]

Whatever, for the last 15 years Ive had my shop in so cal - one of the most expensive states in the US to do business in, with all the insurances, taxes and work comp, producing art by the way and still.... that doesnt tell me much. Oh, I have a 100 feet of carpet though in my office.... cmon, lets hear it... the woods are sourced from x and the preamps are special and they cost y and so on.... its super easy to talk about cost of goods sold... lets talk about the goods... heck it might generate some more sales for them.... we can talk about commission later.

Forgive me for trying to answer your question reasonably. If you're so passionate about it, ask them.

 

[FlatwoundFunk]

It is indeed stereotyping to assume all wealthy people spend lavishly. There exist many rich men with a war-ration, hoarder mentality. Wealthy people are often so precisely because they are extremely hard-nosed. I knew a multi-millionaire who packed his lunch to save a buck.

I would imagine the majority of these so-called coffee table basses are owned by jazbos who can play the bejeeebuz out of them. But then perhaps that is my own stereotyping?

There is an awesome read titled, "The Millionaire Nextdoor" that shows that. I've experienced a few multimillionaires myself who are like that.

But this opens up a question of who these so-called expensive instruments are marketed to? Is the average Jazz musician making the kind of scratch to purchase like that? Interested to know.
FF

 

[JaredBT]

Forgive me for trying to answer your question reasonably. If you're so passionate about it, ask them.

Yes Sir, didnt mean to come off like that, really Im sorry about that. What I said right there and the way I said it stems from after getting past the insults from others they just talk about overhead. Again, my apology for stereotyping you into what others have said.

 

[dtsamples]

Well my Fodera is definitely the nicest bass I've owned and the best feeling. I've had and still have some other great sounding and playing basses. My Dingwall was $3300 used and my imperial elite was $7500 used. They are both what I would consider to be top tier basses. Is the Fodera $4200 nicer (more than double as nice)? I have no idea what that would even mean. What I will say is that the Fodera sounds and plays as good and better in some ways. Cosmetically, and I don't just mean sense of sight cosmetics, but sense of touch as well, the Fodera is an absolute work of art. The Dingwall is incredible, but it's also a fender style bass. The amount of hours of work difference it takes producing those two basses with profit built in is where the extra cost comes from. It's art. The longer it takes and harder it is to get right, the more expensive it is. The argument "that bass is not $X better than my bass" has no basis because better is not a quantitative metric that can be tied to a cost. "That bass took X more man hours to make" is a metric that can be tied to expense. Whether or not the hours are worth it is in the eyes of the beholder. But it's not snake oil, because there's a real actual product at the end. Whether or not I'm a rube for wanting to own the product that took more hours to make is also in the eye of the beholder I guess.

 

[JaredBT]

Well my Fodera is definitely the nicest bass I've owned and the best feeling. I've had and still have some other great sounding and playing basses. My Dingwall was $3300 used and my imperial elite was $7500 used. They are both what I would consider to be top tier basses. Is the Fodera $4200 nicer (more than double as nice)? I have no idea what that would even mean. What I will say is that the Fodera sounds and plays as good and better in some ways. Cosmetically, and I don't just mean sense of sight cosmetics, but sense of touch as well, the Fodera is an absolute work of art. The Dingwall is incredible, but it's also a fender style bass. The amount of hours of work difference it takes producing those two basses with profit built in is where the extra cost comes from. It's art. The longer it takes and harder it is to get right, the more expensive it is. The argument "that bass is not $X better than my bass" has no basis because better is not a quantitative metric that can be tied to a cost. "That bass took X more man hours to make" is a metric that can be tied to expense. Whether or not the hours are worth it is in the eyes of the beholder. But it's not snake oil, because there's a real actual product at the end. Whether or not I'm a rube for wanting to own the product that took more hours to make is also in the eye of the beholder I guess.

View attachment 701892 View attachment 701894 View attachment 701893

Wow, nice... Is the neck on the Fodera thin front to back?

 

[JaredBT]

Wow, nice... Is the neck on the Fodera thin front to back?

I mean relatively....

 

[blowinblue]

I've often wondered. If every member on this forum who plays bass guitar were given 5 million tax free dollars would the frequency of these 'expensive bass' threads that directly or indirectly question their value or practicality be reduced? And when these threads did pop up would the number of responses dwindle? I really don't know the answer but I'd be lying if I told you that I haven't been thinking about it.

M. M.

 

[dtsamples]

It is pretty thin on the outsides and the middle has some meat to it. That profile extends into the back of the body of the bass (ie, it does not get completely flat behind the upper register frets up past the single cut, so when you play up high, your thumb still feels like it is gripping a radiused neck. Things like that are super hard to convey in images, that's why people say play the basses if possible before making a judgement about the value. Here's my best attempt at capturing it on camera. The portion of the neck past the rosewood layer where it turns to swamp ash has a d profile so that the sculpt in the mahogany to the right is recessed. This is an extremely comfortable touch.

 

[20db pad]

I've often wondered. If every member on this forum who plays bass guitar were given 5 million tax free dollars would the frequency of these 'expensive bass' threads that directly or indirectly question their value or practicality be reduced? And when these threads did pop up would the number of responses dwindle? I really don't know the answer but I'd be lying if I told you that I haven't been thinking about it.

M. M.

I've seen over the years that the people that scream the loudest about how a certain brand of instrument isn't worth the money secretly want one the most. There was a guy here years ago who was the most ardent Zon fanboy you could imagine. He also spent there same amount of time championing Zons as he did slamming Sadowsky as overpriced kit basses, here and on other boards. It truly was something to behold - if he put the effort into practicing that he did on his various online campaigns, Anthony Jackson and Wooten would just quit after hearing him play one measure.

Last I heard, that guy has 4-5 Sadowskys now.

 

[dtsamples]

To some people, I know that $7500 is an impossible amount. But I certainly don't have $5 mil dollars, nor am I rich. I received a modest inheritance from my grandfather and used some for a down payment on a small house, put some in a retirement account, put some in a college fund for my daughter, and put some towards my passion, playing music. I earn $50k/yr and my wife doesn't work. Was it a smart investment? Maybe not, but I'm thankful I was given the opportunity to own such beautiful instruments, and am certainly thankful there are people out there who have taken the time to make them.

 

[JoeWPgh]

To some people, I know that $7500 is an impossible amount. But I certainly don't have $5 mil dollars, nor am I rich. I received a modest inheritance from my grandfather and used some for a down payment on a small house, put some in a retirement account, put some in a college fund for my daughter, and put some towards my passion, playing music. I earn $50k/yr and my wife doesn't work. Was it a smart investment? Maybe not, but I'm thankful I was given the opportunity to own such beautiful instruments, and am certainly thankful there are people out there who have taken the time to make them.

I'm with ya. I use the golf analogy: If my passion was golf, after spending $XXX I would have 20 scorecards and 20 1/2 pencils. Instead, I have this

 

[MegaSwing]

The purchase price of an object is irrelevant, as long as you are ready to extract all of the value from the purchase.