Anyone else NOT into lightweight mini rigs?

[muddycreek]

Im talking spirited basement playing alone on a reasonable cab... say a 210. From what I've seen, the extra wattage really shines once youre at a higher volume or with much larger cabs. My th500 was a great bedroom amp and rocked for smaller rehearsals but there was always something missing from the sound.

I've felt the same, and I think a lot of it has to do with the compression / unclarity / distortion that happens in the room and to your ears as the volume goes up. At low volume, the lower wattage (tube?) amp has some mojo from being pushed a bit, and the larger amp is just coasting, probably at it's lowest distortion. As the volume goes up overall, the larger amp stays clean, and fares better against a loud and muddy room or stage.

 

[MordBass]

I've felt the same, and I think a lot of it has to do with the compression / unclarity / distortion that happens in the room and to your ears as the volume goes up. At low volume, the lower wattage (tube?) amp has some mojo from being pushed a bit, and the larger amp is just coasting, probably at it's lowest distortion. As the volume goes up overall, the larger amp stays clean, and fares better against a loud and muddy room or stage.

honestly this was my biggest gripe with my class D. Playing shows and doing loud rehearsals in a rock band were the setting that it just couldnt keep up. It sounded almost fatigued and when I hit the low A anywhere from open up to about the 4th fret... you could feel the amp squash and then open up.. just like dimming headlights on a car with a loud system and no capacitor. With ALL of my other heads the sound was immediate and to the fullest capabilities of what that head had done for me in lower settings. Buuuuuut yea, the class D sounded great at lower volumes and the convenience made it a great value to own. Just for me... not as a main head.

 

[Brad Johnson]

honestly this was my biggest gripe with my class D. Playing shows and doing loud rehearsals in a rock band were the setting that it just couldnt keep up. It sounded almost fatigued and when I hit the low A anywhere from open up to about the 4th fret... you could feel the amp squash and then open up.. just like dimming headlights on a car with a loud system and no capacitor. With ALL of my other heads the sound was immediate and to the fullest capabilities of what that head had done for me in lower settings. Buuuuuut yea, the class D sounded great at lower volumes and the convenience made it a great value to own. Just for me... not as a main head.

Which class D amp? They aren't all created equal.

 

[MordBass]

Which class D amp? They aren't all created equal.

Aguilar TH500. and to be fair, when I say that it wasnt cutting it for me live or loud.... Im not just talking about the CA9 that I replaced it with. Im also talking about the Eden wt550, two Hartke units and the Trace Elliot that came before it. It was an awesome head and met some needs REALLY well... but for me... the one thing that I care about most just wasnt working for me.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Aguilar TH500. and to be fair, when I say that it wasnt cutting it for me live or loud.... Im not just talking about the CA9 that I replaced it with. Im also talking about the Eden wt550, two Hartke units and the Trace Elliot that came before it. It was an awesome head and met some needs REALLY well... but for me... the one thing that I care about most just wasnt working for me.

Not surprised. That amp has always left me thoroughly unimpressed. Not a good example of the max capabilities of a class D head IME.

A suggestion: try better gear.

 

[MordBass]

Not surprised. That amp has always left me thoroughly unimpressed. Not a good example of the max capabilities of a class D head IME.

A suggestion: try better gear.

Dollar for dollar... that was the better gear. What are your suggestions?

 

[muddycreek]

Dollar for dollar... that was the better gear. What are your suggestions?

I'm also interested in what anyone has to say about an amps immediacy, for lack of a better word. I have always felt that leading edge of a note was important to me (although probably not to anyone else listening). It's why, if I get around to another cab build at some point, it's likely to be sealed. There's something in gear with very good transient response that just works for me. Within a reasonable range, I'd put it a notch above voicing.

All with a grain of salt, too, since I can't really quantify it. Is there a bass placebo effect?

 

[MordBass]

I'm also interested in what anyone has to say about an amps immediacy, for lack of a better word. I have always felt that leading edge of a note was important to me (although probably not to anyone else listening). It's why, if I get around to another cab build at some point, it's likely to be sealed. There's something in gear with very good transient response that just works for me. Within a reasonable range, I'd put it a notch above voicing.

All with a grain of salt, too, since I can't really quantify it. Is there a bass placebo effect?

I wasnt 100% sure about the immediacy or promptness until I had gotten my first high power SS power amp. On the guitar end of things I played a Diezel head and noticed it right away. It made me feel like I was so much tighter. Just the slight difference felt so very noticeable.
fwiw I tend to hype the bass settings more than I should on my gear which definitely makes a difference.

 

[muddycreek]

I wasnt 100% sure about the immediacy or promptness until I had gotten my first high power SS power amp. On the guitar end of things I played a Diezel head and noticed it right away. It made me feel like I was so much tighter. Just the slight difference felt so very noticeable.
fwiw I tend to hype the bass settings more than I should on my gear which definitely makes a difference.

I have a hafler p7000 lying around that I should pull out and try to play through with a preamp, funny that I never have. I'm not hauling that damn thing around, but it's a very good solid state amp that might be enlightening.

 

[BadExample]

It's why, if I get around to another cab build at some point, it's likely to be sealed.

I highly recommend something like this: Sealed 15/6 build

I haven't built the exact same cab, but I have built one in a 3ish Cu Ft sealed cab for a different (PA) driver, then bought the aluminum dust cover modified drivers mentioned in that thread and put one in that cab. Nice. I now hold in my grubby little dick beaters the guts of the recently deceased Doc and Wyatt, who lucky for me, were organ donors. So I will be building the Kringle 15/6 soon.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Dollar for dollar... that was the better gear. What are your suggestions?

Dollar for dollar, what was it better than?

The TH500 didn't have the heft of my Markbass Little Mark II or Kustom KXB500, both of which cost less and had the same wattage rating. Sounded muddy in comparison. Caveat : the LMII works much better with a 4 ohm load.

I use a Quilter Bass Block 800. Way more power, more heft, costs less than the TH500. 800w at 4 ohms, IIRC 450w @ 8. And it lets whatever I play through it sound like it sounds. It might give you a different idea of the capabilities of a class D amp. That's why I asked what because typically people who've had issues with class D usually aren't trying the better variants out there.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm also interested in what anyone has to say about an amps immediacy, for lack of a better word. I have always felt that leading edge of a note was important to me (although probably not to anyone else listening). It's why, if I get around to another cab build at some point, it's likely to be sealed. There's something in gear with very good transient response that just works for me. Within a reasonable range, I'd put it a notch above voicing.

All with a grain of salt, too, since I can't really quantify it. Is there a bass placebo effect?

The leading edge of the note is where headroom really comes into the equation. An amp that can't immediately project that will typically sound subpar, boxy, compressed, etc. Then it's up to the cab to be able to handle that.

 

[MordBass]

Dollar for dollar, what was it better than?

The TH500 didn't have the heft of my Markbass Little Mark II or Kustom KXB500, both of which cost less and had the same wattage rating. Sounded muddy in comparison. Caveat : the LMII works much better with a 4 ohm load.

I use a Quilter Bass Block 800. Way more power, more heft, costs less than the TH500. 800w at 4 ohms, IIRC 450w @ 8. And it lets whatever I play through it sound like it sounds. It might give you a different idea of the capabilities of a class D amp. That's why I asked what because typically people who've had issues with class D usually aren't trying the better variants out there.

Dollar for dollar compared to the other pieces i was using/currently use and preferred.
I think for me its that I'm still in shape to the point where it doesnt bother me to haul the heavy stuff... so if it sounds better for me... why not?
But yea, at smaller shows it doesnt make sense for me to haul out the big stuff.

 

[BadExample]

That's why I asked what because typically people who've had issues with class D usually aren't trying the better variants out there.

I say if people like their lead sleds, let them. right now they are a bargain on the used market. But looking forward, I expect new lead sleds to cost a lot more than a new high end class D, if they don't already.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Dollar for dollar compared to the other pieces i was using/currently use and preferred.
I think for me its that I'm still in shape to the point where it doesnt bother me to haul the heavy stuff... so if it sounds better for me... why not?
But yea, at smaller shows it doesnt make sense for me to haul out the big stuff.

Cool. The last few years have seen some amazing values in amps, including the one I gig with.

The size of my gear comes in second to its performance. If it doesn't at least do what I want, I won't use it. Seriously... I didn't give up anything tonally or performance-wise, in fact both have gone up exponentially with each new rig. My gear exceeds my expectations and exceeds the requirements of all of my gigs. The loudest I get is usually at soundchecks, just showing off.

I really couldn't ask for more than that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I say if people like their lead sleds, let them. right now they are a bargain on the used market. But looking forward, I expect new lead sleds to cost a lot more than a new high end class D, if they don't already.

I'm not suggesting anyone use anything they don't want to. That's entirely up to them. My recent point is that making an overall decision on a class of amplification based on a midrange offering might not be the most informed way to go.

 

[BadExample]

The loudest I get is usually at soundchecks, just showing off.

Nothing wrong with that!

 

[BadExample]

I'm not suggesting anyone use anything they don't want to. That's entirely up to them. My recent point is that making an overall decision on a class of amplification based on a midrange offering might not be the most informed way to go.

Yes sir, my point was the price on new will go up, just like tubes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you gig, the true test of whatever you use is in the mix. I've seen folks saying they can use say a GK MB200 successfully live. OTOH my gigs vary and sometimes I play with musicians who haven't worked on controlling their dynamics and while I could whine as they obliterate my "little" rig I'm way happier putting my plugs in and cutting loose. Let's dance!


It's fun watching how fast they usually calm down.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yes sir, my point was the price on new will go up, just like tubes.

Agreed. As demand lessens so will the economy of scale of building so that usually means higher prices. If for some strange reason it increases to a point where that equation tips you could end up with lower prices. Bottom line... someone's got to buy them to make it worth selling.