Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Anyone here think instruments are about to get real cheap?
- Thread starter Mantis Tobaggan
- Start date
People don't have to take advantage of the fact they could beat the hell out of someone on price. Getting a good price isn't the same as raping them. It's a choice, and I know some will, but some won't because they have some decency.
I cannot think of one single aspect of my life where ethics do not have standing and relevance.
Maybe you’re new to TB— you’ve not read the phrase “the price is whatever the buyer or market is willing to pay?”
Dude! You've been here since 2005 and haven't learned that an argument (er... discussion) with the legendary Brad Johnson is an argument you can't win?? It's like stepping into the ring with Muhammed Ali.
Ha whatever, maybe, but not if he’s wrong. The gentleman even self-owned by quoting the inverse of the most common response to the never ending “what’s it worth” threads.Dude! You've been here since 2005 and haven't learned that an argument (er... discussion) with the legendary Brad Johnson is an argument you can't win?? It's like stepping into the ring with Muhammed Ali.
“It’s worth what the buyer is willing to pay...” because that is what it’s worth.
Apply your logic of force to a situation of inebriation and consent. Or taking financial advantage of the very old, the very young, or the ill or incapacitated. It fails those tests and it fails the test in this context.Yeah, I'm new here.
Apparently you did not notice "little". And the price is not what the buyer or market is willing to pay. It's ultimately what the SELLER will ACCEPT. Because they don't have to sell to the buyer. Right?
For ethics to come into play you'd have to have leverage to force the seller to allow you to take advantage of them. You don't have that. By the same token, if someone is in a jam and has to dump something quickly, how is it ethically wrong to pay what they're asking?
You can rely on TB conventional wisdom (oftentimes it is not, more simply groupthink) as you seem to... I'd rather have clear eyes and logic on my side.
You don’t have to be the primary cause of someone’s distress to be unethical when taking advantage of it.
To suggest otherwise seems rather dark to me.
Dude! You've been here since 2005 and haven't learned that an argument (er... discussion) with the legendary Brad Johnson is an argument you can't win?? It's like stepping into the ring with Muhammed Ali.
How could I be legendary if I'm new to TB and unfamiliar with its sayings?
I got most of my gear 2005-2010, and while the market slowed in ‘08, prices did not drop. Back in the day I would see tons of great basses for USD250-350. Most of TB seems to be in the $1k plus range, with lots of 6,7,800 basses. The great cheap stuff is gone, but maybe that’s more about an educated buyer and seller...
As usual, much more convenient to completely ignore what I said.
And speaking of dark, I don't know what circles you travel in but I've never been in a situation to buy from a drunk nor a child. Maybe that's your problem... that's who you think will be selling in a down market aka the actual subject of the thread.
"Force" simply means making someone do something AGAINST their will. No doubt that will provoke another series of flights of fancy.
Good old TB delivers again.
Prices did drop in 2008 for used gear. It was a tough awakening for many, particularly those who previously touted not being concerned about resale value. But like many things, people seem to forget.
Boutique basses in the teens were not rare. Speaking from actual experience as a buyer and seller.
Boutique basses in the teens were not rare. Speaking from actual experience as a buyer and seller.
That's a reasonable stance, just don't be annoyed when they sell it anyway to someone else. Which is the most likely result. It's typically why something is for sale... to sell.
I bought a brand new boutique bass from an authorized dealer years ago on ebay for less than 25% of what it was worth. Why were they selling it? I couldn't have cared less. Funniest thing was a TBer asked me, if I should decide to sell it, would I sell it to his friend who had bid against me? I said sure... but not for what I got it for.
He got upset and asked me why I would rip his friend off?
Welcome to TB logic.
The TB idiom of “what the buyer is willing to pay” is an over simplification of “what the buyer is willing to pay which is above what the seller is willing to let it go for” - if a sale is to happen. Prices may go a bit lower, but a larger market with Reverb and such and the fact that you only need to find one buyer will keep prices from dropping too much.
Vintage guitars and basses took a real hit (or "correction" depending on one's POV) at that time as well.
Explain to me how your taking advantage of a seller in distress is different in kind - not degree - from any of a number of unfair advantage taking scenarios.As usual, much more convenient to completely ignore what I said.
And speaking of dark, I don't know what circles you travel in but I've never been in a situation to buy from a drunk nor a child. Maybe that's your problem... that's who you think will be selling in a down market aka the actual subject of the thread.
"Force" simply means making someone do something AGAINST their will. No doubt that will provoke another series of flights of fancy.
Good old TB delivers again.
Elder financial abuse. Stealing candy from a baby. Paying women a lower salary. Taking a bass for peanuts from a COVID-19 unemployed musician. Believe me they are selling against their will, and will lament the sale years later on TB.
Personal implied insults aside, your argument holds no water.
The market will be down for sure. But like my post said - if you read it - if you can afford to pay 2019 prices to a struggling musician (and there are currently MANY), you’ll have good karma.
I’m sure the market will drop a bit and there will be good deals owing to reduced travel and fewer buyers. But I’ve had craigslist and Facebook buyers actually pay above asking or local sellers or TB sellers kick in extras for varying reasons. This is a hell of a good time to pay a fair asking price to someone who has lost their income rather than grind them down because of “the market”
Anyone who considers themself ground down because they were paid what they asked has their own issues.
I have had great karma. And a clear conscience. I don't get into the seller's business and if that's your thing, knock yourself out.
Intent. The musician is asking for a certain price, if you want money quickly you have to either have high demand or a low price. Do you feel bad when you go into a retailer and buy a pair of jeans for 50% off? If the person knows that the guitar is worth X, but is selling for Y, I don't think you're ripping them off. If you know that they're hurting for money and see that they're selling something and then lowball them, sure, that's sketchy.
If a transaction just doesn’t feel right for whatever reason I will withdraw. This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t buy a bass from someone that was selling because COVID-19 hurt the economy, but if the ad says something like “I lost my job and have to sell my beloved bass to feed my kids,” I will most likely not pursue it.
While I understand the sentiment, the seller still needs to feed their kids and compassion with no sale doesn't help.
You’re right, of course; on the other hand, I’m not obligated to pursue it if doing so makes me feel bad. Let another more heartless buyer snag that instrument.
As usual, much more convenient to completely ignore what I said.
And speaking of dark, I don't know what circles you travel in but I've never been in a situation to buy from a drunk nor a child. Maybe that's your problem... that's who you think will be selling in a down market aka the actual subject of the thread.
"Force" simply means making someone do something AGAINST their will. No doubt that will provoke another series of flights of fancy.
Good old TB delivers again.
ethics are not sentiment
Same here. Not because of bad karma or whatever, I just don't like the sale to be wrapped up with emotion. State a price, I'll respond with yes/no.
