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Are 15" speaker cabs the new 12s?
- Thread starter chazsundance
- Start date
I've gigged with 212's, 215's, 115's, 210's, and 410's. Back in the 60's, 12" speakers were the most common although you could get 15" speakers with the Fender Dual Showman. Then in 1967 Fender changed their Bassman cabs from 212 to 215's although I believe you could still order a 212 cab. I had a '66 that I bought in '66 and it was a great looking cab that constantly blew speakers. Replaced it with a Standel MCIIb/SAM30b piggy-back amp that used a powered 215 cab when I started touring with a nightclub group in the early 70's. It was shorter but about twice as deep as my Bassman was, but we typically played 2 week engagements at clubs so I only had to move it in and out once ever couple of weeks. Played 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year for 3-years...man was that fun!
Big stage stuff was primarily 215 cabs (Sunn and Fender) although acoustic quickly took a prominent place in the early 70's with its 18" folded horn 360/361 and Ampeg's SVT appeared in 1969. In 1976 all my gear was stolen when our house was burglarized and I couldn't tell you much about cabs until 1985 when I went back to college and was working part-time at a music store. By far and away in 1985 I sold more Peavey TNT65 115 combo amps to bass players than anything else. They were heavy as all get out but were a great way for a beginning or intermediate bass player to be able to play gigs. I would occasionally sell the black SVT's which in 1985 had a retail price of $2,450 (I'd sell you one for $2000 if you pulled out the cash right then!)
I can also tell you that Eden's 410's wildly outsold their 212 cabs throughout the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. As we got into around 2008 or so, 112's started becoming more and more popular. I have one friend who had 4 D112XLT cabs and he'd use 1 to 4 of them depending upon the size of the gig. The 215 cabs on the other hand became less and less popular disappearing from Edens offerings entirely in 2010, although the 115 was still sold. Marshall/Eden did bring out a limited edition 215 cab one year, but I have no idea how it sold.
The 112's popularity vs. the 212 cabs had risen so much by 2010 that when David Nordschow started DNA and released his first cabs in 2010 he didn't even make a 212 cabinet. When I asked him if he was planning on making one, he said no. He said that the demand for 212 cabinet had dropped off so far before he left Eden that he had no plans on making one at DNA. And yet 112 cabinets were so popular that he built two different versions of it. Many of the DNA endorsers use two of them to cover all of their venues. I really wanted to get two of the 112 cabs, but didn't have the $$ to buy two of them in 2015 as a single 112 wasn't that much less than their 410. After talking with Lane Baldwin (LaneOnBass), who had two of the DNS-112's, he suggested I get the 410 in 8Ω, bridge my Eden WT500/800 (800-watts rms bridged) into it; and call 'er done! So I did and I'm very glad I did. It's an amazing cab and I never need an 810 even when playing Festivals.
I used one Eden EX-112 cab for small venues and two of the 112's for medium-sized gigs for about a year. It was really nice to have a modular system and I think that's one of the main reason people like 112's so much. Take one 112 cab to your venue and add a second one to it if one is not enough. I can carry my gig bag over one shoulder, my class D amp in its shoulder bag over the other shoulder, pick up my 30-lb 112 cab by its top handle in one hand and my bass in the other and haul it all in and out all at once. Very convenient for playing small venues. When I played medium-sized venues I'd stack the two 112's and my big Eden amp on a hand truck or wheeled cart to move it in. So, 112's are pretty convenient and you just take what you need to where you need to.
I would hazard a guess that you will continue to see 115 combos and cabs being used as the only cab for a lot of players. With a good amp, a good 115 can handle all but perhaps the largest clubs by themselves. But
112's are typically about 10-lbs or more lighter than the 115's and the dimensions are smaller too. So 112's are both lighter and easier to move around than 115's and I doubt that 115's will take their place in multiple cab set-ups. In the 60's and 70's we needed 15's to get the deep bass sound we were looking for but with modern cabs, very often a 210 will go lower than a 15 and will have better definition of the sound.
In 2019, when I got accepted by DNA as a DNA Endorsing Artist, I bought the DNS-210 for medium-sized venues. After the first time I used it I realized I could use it for all my indoor gigs, so now I reserve my DNS-410 for outdoor venues and Festivals, use my DNS-210 for all my indoor venues, and don't use two 112's anymore. I will still use my single 112 cab for small venues though because it's just so easy to bring in everything at once.
So those are my feelings about 115's replacing 112's. I just don't see it happening at least with the 212/215 cabs. HOWEVER, @agedhorse probably has a better handle on whether the sales of 15's are overtaking the sale of 12's and how 212/215 cabs are selling versus 112/115 cabs because Mesa makes all of those cabs.
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I likes 'em all. I do like 15's though and don't have enough experience with 12's, 10's are quick.
Um, I like a cab that sounds good and I don't like one that doesn't. Speaker size matters not to me.
I agree.For my P bass with flats (and tort) classic rock needs, 2 X 115 GK NEOs, singly or together, sometimes with only the top one hooked up, serve just fine.
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IMO, 15s have always been better for the sound I want than 12s, but modern 12s are a reasonable compromise, if size is an issue. What I don't like is 10s. I'll take 12s any day of the week over 10s, but I'd still prefer 15s in most cases, assuming we are comparing similar era examples. Obviously a modern 12 is better than most vintage 15s. But I've always found 18s sub-optimal.
Well this is such a generalization title. You cant make a statement in one breath. I heard so much about the BagEnd S-15D, I bought 2 of them and after a few months, they weren't what I was after (maybe it was the amp matching?). I traded them for a pair of Aguilar GS 112s, which in my opinion, had much more low end but a little scooped. So the 15s were much more mid present and punchy, and the 12 were more HiFi. My Berg NV215 is both punchy as all hell and deep sounding, but less efficient. NOW, the Reeves 115 (I have 2), is efficient, deep, crisp and punchy. I only need one for a gig. It is based on an old design Sunn 215 and an Orange 115. So my feeling is there is some old engineering that just works. You may have to lug it around a little and complain a bit but the reward is worth it (to me). That being said, I don't seem to be able to part with the Berg or Aguilars- YET, (I still have my Eden D410XLT)
I've never been a 10s, 12s, or 15s guy. I've always purchased based on: the tone I was after, ergonomics like weight and box size, quality of the product, reputation of the builder, and so on. The following is just my experience with my ears.
Over the last 10 or 15 years I've owned or have experience with the following (at least those I remember well):
Epifani UL series 110, 112, 310, 410
Genz Benz Shuttle series 110, 112, 210
Bergantino CN series 112 and 210
Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 and 115
Genzler Bass Array series 110, 112
In all cases, to my ears, speaker cabs in the same series sounded more alike than the same diameter speaker from a different series. So the TC112 sounded more like the TC115 than the other 112s on my list. The Shuttle 210 sounded more like the Shuttle 112 than any of the other 10 inch-based cabinets.
The Bergantino CN112 sounded more like the CN210 than the other 112s. And certainly, the Bass Array cabs sounded more like each other than the same speaker size in other lines.
Based on those experiences, speaker diameter has no bearing on my purchase decisions. Of course IMHO and YMMV.
Over the last 10 or 15 years I've owned or have experience with the following (at least those I remember well):
Epifani UL series 110, 112, 310, 410
Genz Benz Shuttle series 110, 112, 210
Bergantino CN series 112 and 210
Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 and 115
Genzler Bass Array series 110, 112
In all cases, to my ears, speaker cabs in the same series sounded more alike than the same diameter speaker from a different series. So the TC112 sounded more like the TC115 than the other 112s on my list. The Shuttle 210 sounded more like the Shuttle 112 than any of the other 10 inch-based cabinets.
The Bergantino CN112 sounded more like the CN210 than the other 112s. And certainly, the Bass Array cabs sounded more like each other than the same speaker size in other lines.
Based on those experiences, speaker diameter has no bearing on my purchase decisions. Of course IMHO and YMMV.
Oddly enough I joined TB just as 12" cabs were coming into favor. The conventional wisdom was that "10s are fast and 15s are deep, because physics." I got curious about the physics and learned that the conventional wisdom was bunk. But I learned how speakers work.
I was also interested in making my own speakers. Here's what I learned, strictly from a DIY perspective: Try to get the sound that you need from a single driver if possible, because it's the most economical use of money and materials. Only double up on drivers if a single 12" or 15" isn't loud enough.
I was also interested in making my own speakers. Here's what I learned, strictly from a DIY perspective: Try to get the sound that you need from a single driver if possible, because it's the most economical use of money and materials. Only double up on drivers if a single 12" or 15" isn't loud enough.
To me, 12" bass speakers are like 10" guitar speakers, in they they should great and all, but you need more than one to sound good unmic-ed with a drummer. 15" is the size that performs well loud all by its lonesome.
I'm sure there are plenty of good loud 12" bass cabinets, just like you can take someone's ear off with a 10" guitar speaker. But to move a lot of air in a relaxed and confident manner with a single speaker, and without freaking out about specs or cab design, 15" is better.
I'm sure there are plenty of good loud 12" bass cabinets, just like you can take someone's ear off with a 10" guitar speaker. But to move a lot of air in a relaxed and confident manner with a single speaker, and without freaking out about specs or cab design, 15" is better.
I had a pair of Hartke 12's that were workhorses, but I always wanted the 15 but not the weight.. Got a Mesa Subway 15 and am very pleased. 
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I don't know if they are the new 12" but I only have one 15" cab (in fact it is a combo) and I love it... 
One would hope that how it sounds is the primary consideration, but understand that size and weight can important as well to some.
My Peavey max 250 Combo Has everything I need to get the Jamerson sound I love.A very deep sounding internally tilted 15 inch speaker, & a tweeter I can turn on and off as I need.The EQ settings give me the sound I need for any situation,in a small setting.I love this amp but I dont play professionally just for fun and sanityLOL.
