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Are Carbon Fiber Rods Necessary?

#21
Dave Higham said:
I beg to differ. The CF rods are MUCH stiffer than the amount of wood they replace. Take a CF rod and a piece of maple of the same dimensions and try bending them.
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You miss the point - and I don't entirely disagee, BUT...talk with any major builder and they will tell you the same as I did. The rods are there for fingerboard stability and to minimize dead spots. In a mass production instrument (like Fender) that may/maynot have time to dry and age their wood as much as they'd like in a perfect world - rods are a way to consistancy and a uniform neck that will (hopefully) vary little from one to the next.
 
#22
Dave Higham said:
I beg to differ. The CF rods are MUCH stiffer than the amount of wood they replace. Take a CF rod and a piece of maple of the same dimensions and try bending them.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not only is the carbon fiber stronger, it is lighter than the wood as well, making for better balance and a bit less neck dive. While it is a small amount of weight it is compounded by being cantilevered pass the strap button. I have noticed no discernable sound difference between necks with and without support rods but the supported have a slightly different, stiffer feel. The bars also decrease neck movement, allowing for fewer adjustments and more consistent setups. When I want a modern bass with super low action I always use support rods but if I were going for a traditional fender feel I would leave them out and let the neck do its thing.
 
#23
SlingBass4 said:
You miss the point - and I don't entirely disagee, BUT...talk with any major builder and they will tell you the same as I did. The rods are there for fingerboard stability and to minimize dead spots. In a mass production instrument (like Fender) that may/maynot have time to dry and age their wood as much as they'd like in a perfect world - rods are a way to consistancy and a uniform neck that will (hopefully) vary little from one to the next.
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I may have some insight.

:)

The rods are in our necks (can't and won't comment for anyone else) to create OVERALL stability, and they DO. We have built necks without the rods, they flat flex more under tension.

Back to the OP's question: are they NECESSARY?

No, they are not. Millions of bass guitar necks have been built without graphite reinforcement rods, and a significant portion of those have been just fine. They will need to be adjusted far more often, and they will not have the same (in my OPINION: better) tone, but they work just fine.

There are many facets of what makes a neck stable/stiff and sound good, graphite rods are just one, other factors are (as mentioned above) curing, and grain orientation (quartersawn versus slab or flat sawn for example). But, to discount the ability of graphite rods on adding stability to a neck is just incorrect - it definitely and demonstrably adds to the stability. It may not be what you are looking for tonally, or you may wish to avoid doing it for other reasons (financial, philosophical), but doing so will ensure that all other things being equal, one of the necks will move more than the other.
 
#26
Just anecdotal, but I bought new Fender Am Dlx P, and an Am Dlx J basses in the last two years, and so far, I had to turn the J bass truss rod nut very slightly once, and the P bass, truss rod nut not at all since I've owned them. These necks do not move. My MIM J gets adjusted at least once a year, (seasonal).
 
#31
What is "fingerboard stability" supposed to mean? Is there such a thing as an unstable fingerboard on a stable neck, or a stable fingerboard on an unstable neck, where there is an evidence to uphold that assertion (if that is actually what is being claimed)? Is there a fingerboard somewhere in the world that continually bows forward and back with the weather, but the neck somehow doesn't move?

Furthermore, please describe a mode in which CF composite rods would be utilized to "stabilize a fingerboard," but not the neck.


And BTW, the statement, "[CF rods] provide no strength to the overall neck" is wrong. Factually, theoretically and empirically, provably, wrong.

Also, "you're doing that [providing strength] by having a mult-laminate neck" is also wrong if you're talking about just laminating multiple layers of whatever homogeneous wood you're comparing it to. Only if you introduce a stiffer wood than your original board will the stiffness go up. Cutting wood apart and gluing it back together does not magically change its inherent properties.


Oh, and while we're at it, strength is not a consideration in any conventional neck, as the yield strength is never remotely approached (forget the UTS or rupture strength!). Stiffness is the issue you're actually interested in.
 
#38
I may be opening a bag of worms here but consider steel rods. They're a lot cheaper and do a great job.

I know there may be opinions on the differences between steel and carbon rods but so many builders use them (I have too with great success) and it's not like they're much heavier than carbon.

Just to help with the budget, ya know :)
 
#39
Hello guys,
I'm also planing a build in the near future and something is bothering me about the carbon fiber rods :
The neck needs a slight curve to be playable but the CF rods are not suppose to bend, or if they do, it require a lot of force from the truss rod (I think).
Wouldn't that put a lot of stress in the neck ?
 
#40
Freestyler said:
Hello guys,
I'm also planing a build in the near future and something is bothering me about the carbon fiber rods :
The neck needs a slight curve to be playable but the CF rods are not suppose to bend, or if they do, it require a lot of force from the truss rod (I think).
Wouldn't that put a lot of stress in the neck ?
Click to expand...

The CF rods are there to prevent the force of the strings from bending the neck too much. They will actually help the truss rod a bit.

Unless your CF rods are TOO stiff, in which case you need a double action truss rod to help the strings bend the neck.

CF rods are stiff, but they do bend a bit.
 

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