AudioKinesis 112 Cab

[Passinwind]

Do be aware though, people: if you take a good bass source up off the floor very far you end up losing all that low frequency coupling. As you go higher you actually start creating destructive cancellations at frequencies closer and closer to the low end. Sometimes people actually blow drivers because of the destructive cancellations gutting content that's desired, and people running amps and cabs too hard trying to compensate.

This is why club PA practices use active crossovers, keeps subwoofers on the floor, and does not run low frequency content through suspended/flown/pole-mounted/etc mains.

True that. For double bass like Jazzdogg is asking about I've heard pole mounts work really well though.

 

[Lowtonejoe]

True that. For double bass like Jazzdogg is asking about I've heard pole mounts work really well though.

Maybe because the deeper bass you get with floor coupling is not really part of what a DB really sounds like making floor coupling unimportant?



Joe.

 

[greenboy]

The important part of my last post was not about boundary coupling which even fairly elementary players are becoming more aware of these days - it was about being aware of destructive cancellations which are next on the dance card as bass sources get lifted up higher. Sometimes it's hard to understand what's dicing up someone's tone, or even making things work harder and harder for less output. Sometimes it's worse further out in a venue because of it.

I thought I'd offer up a little extra material for the grist mill, for putting the bigger picture together.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

The important part of my last post was not about boundary coupling which even fairly elementary players are becoming more aware of these days - it was about being aware of destructive cancellations which are next on the dance card as bass sources get lifted up higher.

Floor bounce cancellations are real, but all things considered, fairly insignificant. Standing next to a speaker six feet off the floor there will be a deep floor bounce null at roughly 50 Hz. As you move further away there will be multiple nulls across the bandwidth, but none particularly severe, and at the same time they'll be offset by reinforcing reflections off the ceiling and walls. It all adds up to the total room response, which usually has a way of turning out not so bad. Where things do deteriorate the further back you are it's usually the result of high frequency smearing, which happens in highly reverberant spaces.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

FYI: The crossover is on the bottom on the cab and is a MASSIVE assembly that occupies all the 'floor' space. Maybe side mounting might work? Talk to Duke.

Yeah the crossover's kinda big, and in fact I had to juggle the parts layout to make space for the inner flare of that lower port!

If someone wants a pole-mount tophat, I figured I'd mount the crossover on the side, then find the center of gravity (on the bottom of the cab) and locate the tophat there. It would probably end up off to one side a bit, as the weight of the big inductors on the now-side-mounted crossover board will shift the center of gravity. I think there's something like eight inductors altogether, but only three are really beefy.

 

[greenboy]

Floor bounce cancellations are real, but all things considered, fairly insignificant.

From time to time I've run across similar scenarios mentioned in this pdf: Invalid Link Removed

When it's significant it's significant enough.

 

[Joe Smithberger]

Yeah the crossover's kinda big, and in fact I had to juggle the parts layout to make space for the inner flare of that lower port!

If someone wants a pole-mount tophat, I figured I'd mount the crossover on the side, then find the center of gravity (on the bottom of the cab) and locate the tophat there. It would probably end up off to one side a bit, as the weight of the big inductors on the now-side-mounted crossover board will shift the center of gravity. I think there's something like eight inductors altogether, but only three are really beefy.

Doesn't this kind of talk get your gear "juices" flowing? OK I am a gear geek...big manly inductors and all that.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

From time to time I've run across similar scenarios mentioned in this pdf: Invalid Link Removed

Bad link, so I can't read it. But the vast majority of floor bounce problems are related to high frequency early reflections, not low frequency nulls. Two cures: carpet and line arrayed tweeters.

 

[primeVibe]

HMM I have a LM250 amp, would it make a good match for this luxurious cab?
Not very experienced at this stuff. Its my first Bass Head, And I don't have a cab yet.
Really excited to get one. I will be playing My carved archtop guitars over this, and my bass guitars too. Looking for pure tones! I'd appreciate anycomments from all you satisfied owners.

Cheers

I first heard Duke's Thunderchild last Saturday, with Acoustic Image 400W micro head. Master Luthier Ryan Thorell made sweet sounds with a nice Ibanez bass. Then he plugged in one of his prized arch tops valued around $12k with back carved from 3" thick solid Bagstone (bah-stee-OHN, extremely rare).

TC notes: the XO range is absolutely seamless. Overall it's super clear and clean, letting all or most of the arch top's warmth shine through. Absolutely no honk, sizzle, or beaming in the upper registers, but rather smooth tone. Exceptional note separation, yet it's a cohesive whole, a neat trick. The presentation seemed the same walking a pretty big radius in front of the TC...I'm 6-3. We were listening in the same room much of the day to Duke's home audio Planetarium Gamma stand-mount satellite speakers, which have a similar presentation and may share some engineering and technology.

Acoustic Image atop the Thunderchild

Master Duke 2nd from L, Ryan Thorell far R playing his Bagstone arch top, I'm holding a Thorell Sweet E rock maple arch top...TC and amp far right

I'm familiar with the Acoustic Image amp, which appears acceptable for bass. But an exceptional arch top begs for a similar quality tube amp. The fact the Thunderchild sounded as good at it did with the Acoustic Image says a lot about the TC.

Ryan will install the LR Baggs Anthem mic in a Thorell flattop owned by professional guitarist Austin Weyand. We hope to hear the Thorell/Anthem duo on Duke's TC at that time.

 

[primeVibe]

There is never a bad time for pie.

I'll stand by that.

Digg.

 

[KJung]

I first heard Duke's Thunderchild last Saturday. with Acoustic Image 400W head. Master Luthier Ryan Thorell made sweet sounds with a nice Ibanez bass. Then he plugged in one of his prized arch tops valued around $12k with back carved from 3" thick solid Bagstone (bah-stee-OHN, extremely rare).

TC notes: the XO range is absolutely seamless. Overall it's super clear and clean, letting all or most of the arch top's warmth shine through. Absolutely no honk, sizzle, or beaming in the upper registers, but rather smooth tone. Exceptional note separation, yet it's a cohesive whole, a neat trick. The presentation seemed the same walking a pretty big radius in front of the TC...I'm 6-3. We were listening in the same room much of the day to Duke's home audio Planetarium Gamma stand-mount satellite speakers, which have a similar presentation and may share some engineering and technology.

[/IMG]

I'm familiar with the Acoustic Image amp, which appears acceptable for bass. But an exceptional arch top begs for a similar quality tube amp. The fact the Thunderchild sounded as good at it did with the Acoustic Image says a lot about the TC.

Ryan will install the LR Baggs Anthem mic in a Thorell flattop owned by professional guitarist Austin Weyand. We hope to hear the Thorell/Anthem duo on Duke's TC at that time.

Looks like a nice hang! Wish I could have been there to meet Duke. I continue to really be blown away by this little box.

 

[Hollow Man]

Duke sent me the email early (actually, ungodly early) this morning; looks like my TC will be done next week! Can't wait to start using it!

 

[4StringTheorist]

Duke sent me the email early (actually, ungodly early) this morning; looks like my TC will be done next week! Can't wait to start using it!

I'd been dealing with the wait for mine pretty darn well until reading this...

Now I'm all excited! Some weeks down, some weeks yet to go! I can make it. Oh yes.

 

[shrigg]

The Kart-a-Bag Concorde III will be your very good friend in your situation. It is a super duty luggage cart that has stair walker rails, and attached bungee tie downs. You can strap the cab, small head and stand on the cart, bass on your back, and you can walk for blocks. The stair walkers allow you to easily go over curbs and up and down four or five stairs with ease. The platform is only around 10" deep, but it works well with the cab and the bungee tie downs.

This line of carts is so far above the cheapo stuff it isn't even funny, and folds up to smaller than the cover once you get on the gig. Not cheap, but worth every penny. I have the Super 600 for 212 size cabs, and that works great also.

FYI!

Thanks for the tip, just nabbed a used one for $35!! SCORE

 

[KJung]

I tell you what guys, it has been long enough now that I can honestly say, for those looking for a small one cab solution that can handle up to a moderate size/volume gig, this thing is IT.

This is by far the best small rig I've ever had or heard, and this particular combination (the A-C LM5, the Markbass F500 and the Thunder Child) is just punchy, loud as heck, full but not bloomy, articulate and 'naturally brite' up top, and just kicks like a mule.

This is one of the few cabs that I can honestly recommend to almost anyone using a single 112 or 210, and in some cases even a 2 x 112 stack. 'Even and punchy' at all volumes, and real low end that does not compress at all when slapped hard or pounded.

Simply kickin' in every way I have now gone from a gushing fan boy to an over the top, gushing, and probably a bit obnoxious fan boy $700..... forget about it... save your pennies and buy one

 

[shrigg]

and in some cases even a 2 x 112 stack.

Okay, sell me. I'm using a Walkabout head through an HT112/EX112 (non-ER) stack with mostly passive basses.

For fingerstyle and slap style, would I fall in the above-mentioned "some cases" category? I now bump the low mids and enjoy a tone that is pretty huge.

Edit: also worth noting: I had an acme B2 for the last 10 years and found the Bergs to be MUCH brighter and livelier

 

[KJung]

Okay, sell me. I'm using a Walkabout head through an HT112/EX112 (non-ER) stack with mostly passive basses.

For fingerstyle and slap style, would I fall in the above-mentioned "some cases" category? I now bump the low mids and enjoy a tone that is pretty huge.

I think you would be VERY happy. The absolute low end of this cab is in between the ER and HT to my ear (I recently had an ER at the house). However, it puts out more db's down low than either a single ER or the original HT stack IMO, and is very round down there... not quite as extended as the ER, but MUCH more real low end than the original HT.

The top end is a bit smoother than the very nice HT tweeter... not quite as much sound way up in the sizzle area...a bit more organic.

34 pounds. It does like power (you will have to turn the volume knob up quite a bit more on your amp to get the same volume as a more typical 2 x 112 stack like the HT112/EX112). The 4ohm impedance helps with the low SPL.

With the Walkabout, I would suspect you would get about 85% of the absolute volume of your current stack, more real low end, a touch more smooth and organic up top, and a weight that I think is less than one HT112.

That is a wonderful sounding stack though, so I would think the primary reason would be size and weight for you making a switch. However, if you are looking for a one cab solution that is of the 'quality' of that wonderful HT stack, this would be it.

I do have a clip up of the HT112ER and of course a few up of the ThunderChild. That might help you hear at least the difference in the upper end response, since the ER and orignal use the same tweeter.

 

[shrigg]

So I won't find myself power lusting for gig-worthy volume like I did with my Acme B2? I realize this is a much different cab than the acme yet it still falls into that "deep bass at expense of efficiency" category.... ie: Light, Low, and efficient. Pick 2.

 

[rpsands]

It's about 3db more sensitive than the B2. If your B2 was 4 ohm, you will still be louder, but not a ton. If your B2 was 8 ohm, it will be a TON louder.

The Thunderchild is not really a "deep bass at the expense of efficiency" cabinet -- it's as sensitive as any driver used in a 1x12 bass cabinet except the Barefaced Compact. 95db is an extremely loud honest measurement for a 1x12 -- it's not possible to do much better with current tech.

The only way I've seen any speakers louder is to sacrifice bass output a lot (e.g. the extremely low QTS woofers used as midbass in PA applications). Or horn loading of course.

 

[KJung]

It's about 3db more sensitive than the B2. If your B2 was 4 ohm, you will still be louder, but not a ton. If your B2 was 8 ohm, it will be a TON louder.

The Thunderchild is not really a "deep bass at the expense of efficiency" cabinet -- it's as sensitive as any driver used in a 1x12 bass cabinet except the Barefaced Compact. 95db is an extremely loud honest measurement for a 1x12 -- it's not possible to do much better with current tech.

The only way I've seen any speakers louder is to sacrifice bass output a lot (e.g. the extremely low QTS woofers used as midbass in PA applications). Or horn loading of course.

This cab takes a LOT more power to get up to volume than a typical 112. You are somehow misinterpreting the specs that you are using, or the specs are incorrect. Trust me, I've been A/Bing for a month now with various 210's and 112's. However, the good news is, it will take the power and at the rather unusual 4ohm impedance for a 112, it will at least somewhat make up for the significantly lower SPL.

And of course, the 'louder cabs' will, almost by definition, have a less low end response and or a much more aggressive mid bump. This cab has MUCH higher Max SPL across a wide frequency range than any other 112 I've experienced, but there is a price to pay in 'volume per watt'... that's just the way it works from my experience. The difference with this little box compared to many of the other 'deep, low SPL' executions from back in the day (like the Acme) is it can actually take the power needed to get the volume up there, and it handles the transients MUCH better.

To the OP, this cab falls right between an Acme and a 'normal' 112 (like your HT112) regarding, not surprisingly, low end and SPL. Also, the good news is, the driver is much more 'robust' than the Acme... none of that cone creasing or that 'clank' when the cone hits the coil or whatever that is (the xmech thing that can be a problem with the Acme's if you slap).

Also, to the OP... if you are an Acme lover, this is not the same thing. You might want to PM my buddy Mothra2, which loves his B210 and didn't really dig the Thunder Child. Good to have another data point and a direct Acme comparison.