AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[Marial]

I owned the Quilter at one point when they first came out and I would say that it's absolutely fantastic as long as you don't find yourself needing to adjust the mids AND treble at the same time. I suppose if you play active basses with onboard EQ, it's probably not an issue, or if you're using pedals with EQ. I like a little scoop in my mids and a little cut in the treble with most rigs and I found that once I scooped a little mids with the Quilter, I was left without a treble control and it was just too bright for me. Rolling off the tone knob on my passive J was the only way to cut a little treble but I really don't like what it does to the overall tone. To my ears, rolling off the tone knob just eats all of your tone up and makes it muddy - much different from a treble control on an amp. Honestly, if the Quilter had just one more knob for treble, it might have been perfect for me.

I've never had an issue rolling my tone knob off. I used run the pick ups on my Hwy One Jazz rolled back about 25% and the tone rolled damn near off, with flatwounds, when I was playing alt-country. This was through an Ashdown ABM-500 Evo II 2x10 combo. Believe it or not, it was never muddy, but it was just deep and delicious. That's what I want to get back to, only without the weight (I had back surgery in 2002 and my back still doesn't like awkward heavy things).

 

[nostatic]

That's a fair question. My bass tone was good through the cab only, as my main rig it is pretty much dialed in. It got too "wooly " with the sub on, which is where I made my on-board adjustment on the fly.

Subs as in FOH? I always tell the sound guy to keep me out of the subs if possible.

 

[nostatic]

I owned the Quilter at one point when they first came out and I would say that it's absolutely fantastic as long as you don't find yourself needing to adjust the mids AND treble at the same time. I suppose if you play active basses with onboard EQ, it's probably not an issue, or if you're using pedals with EQ. I like a little scoop in my mids and a little cut in the treble with most rigs and I found that once I scooped a little mids with the Quilter, I was left without a treble control and it was just too bright for me. Rolling off the tone knob on my passive J was the only way to cut a little treble but I really don't like what it does to the overall tone. To my ears, rolling off the tone knob just eats all of your tone up and makes it muddy - much different from a treble control on an amp. Honestly, if the Quilter had just one more knob for treble, it might have been perfect for me.

I play active basses, and still find that having dual parametric mids (in the D800+) can be very useful on some gigs in some rooms. As it stands with the D800 (or the preamp pedal), the mids are fairly well placed to my taste, especially since the mids on my bass are set higher (closer to 700hz).

But depends on your instruments, your technique, and the rooms you play.

Since this is an AK thread, I will say that the mids on the D800 mate well with the H1203. I can get more low-mid push if I want it, or thin it out down there if I want to get really articulate chords. The mid "grind" switch is usually on all the time for me, as I like that bit of bite and it is above the upper mid on the Mesa.

 

[Snaxster]

I'm surprised about your description of your cabs though... the Baer seems to be all about the high midrange based on the BGM review and others.

As for Baer cabinets, my ML-112 is the only one I ever played. For me, it is not nearly "all about the high midrange".

Though I don't retract my previous take, I do amend it now. My Baer Series 1 ML-112 is still new to me, after all. Playing it a few times recently, I considered its voice in light of your comment. Today I finally concluded that my ML-112 is quite aggressive-sounding, and that yes, the focal point of its aggression is in the upper midrange.

To try to pin down what I was hearing today, I played two different enough basses through the same stack: Baer Valkyrie > ML-112, then switched to Hathor 1203. Even engaging both of the Hathor 1203's switches (which normally I never do) and driving it a little harder, I could not make it sound in any way as unruly and slightly pissed off as the ML-112 did even when barely driven.

By comparison, the Hathor sounded refined and reserved. Smoove and tasty. The Hathor 1203 let me play more aggressively without the extent of dynamic consequences as with the ML-112, which for all its nuance and responsiveness is quite extrovert.

 

[Type-55]

The D800 has a built-in HPF at 30hz. The D800+ has the variable HPF as well.

Are you boosting or cutting? Also, mess with the voicing and deep switch. There are a lot of tones in the Mesa, though it does have some inherent voice (as all amps do).

If you have "too much bass", then I'd probably run the voicing flat (full CCW), deep off, and cut some bass. But you also could try adding the deep and cutting more bass and/or moving the voicing around. I usually run the voicing around 9:00, deep switch on or off depending on the room and situation. Also depends on how loud you're playing.

I have boosted, cut, all the tone controls on the D 800. I have it set now to minimize the honk but it's still there a bit and also the hardness on the attack of the note is there as well. I have the bass at noon or 10 O'clock. If I do massive tone adjustments the tone has no life to it.
If I turn the bass down I loose some fullness on the D and G string. The D 800 + has a better eq section and with the HPF it would be a possibility but as you said about the TH 500 some amps just have a baked in sound you can't get away from. The only other variable might be the strings. I use La Bella flats light gauge 39-96 and I wounder if the mids of the strings are a factor? Passive Valenti jazz with NJ4's. Thing is I've used the D 800 with 2 other cabs and never really noticed the mid, well maybe a bit but not this much. I have used a Puma 500 and Eden WT 405 and WT 550 with other AK cabs and never had this problem. Sold the Puma, little to modern.

 

[Type-55]

I don't mean this to sound rude at all, but why not just turn down the bass knob? I don't think I've ever had a problem with "too much bass" after turning down the bass knob, regardless of whatever amp and cab.

I think it goes beyond just trolling off the low end with this amp/cab combo.
I hate to say it but maybe the D800 is not a good match with this cab?

 

[steubig]

i'm not sure it's a "match" thing so much as it is a "what you hear as a good sound" thing.

i was very gung ho about the 800+ until i heard the thing you're talking about. for me it represents as a "closed" rather than "open" sound. for some people that's a feature; for me it's a flaw.

the puma can be a little too clean. i always have the taste at around 3 o'clock, which mushes it up a bit, but also can create some unwanted breakup when you play hard (which i can do). seems like it's always a series of compromises. at least for me.

 

[adam montminy]

I use La Bella flats light gauge 39-96 and I wounder if the mids of the strings are a factor?

If you like La Bella flats, I HIGHLY recommend the La Bella Low Tension Flexible Flats. I used to use Deep Talking Flats and recently bought a set of almost all the other flats on the market to try them out. The Flexible Flats are amazing and really hit the sweet spot for tone and feel. They're deep and fat but not super dark and they feel smooth and taught like the DTF but much more flexible. They have a bit of "give."
As far as the D-800/Thunderchild goes, I just can't imagine not being able to tailor the low end to your liking, between plugging the ports and using EQ. I know what you're saying about loosing fullness on the high strings when you turn down the bass but I think that's just the nature of turning down the bass. You can't have fullness without bass, right? If you want less bass, you're not going to have as much fullness, no matter the rig. A variable HPF like on the D800+ is nice to have but you might find the same results I think. Keep in mind that plugging the ports has the same effect as turning up a HPF. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, Duke.) Or maybe you just want a good excuse to buy the 800+! I can't blame you there.

 

[nostatic]

Though I don't retract my previous take, I do amend it now. My Baer Series 1 ML-112 is still new to me, after all. Playing it a few times recently, I considered its voice in light of your comment. Today I finally concluded that my ML-112 is quite aggressive-sounding, and that yes, the focal point of its aggression is in the upper midrange.

To try to pin down what I was hearing today, I played two different enough basses through the same stack: Baer Valkyrie > ML-112, then switched to Hathor 1203. Even engaging both of the Hathor 1203's switches (which normally I never do) and driving it a little harder, I could not make it sound in any way as unruly and slightly pissed off as the ML-112 did even when barely driven.

By comparison, the Hathor sounded refined and reserved. Smoove and tasty. The Hathor 1203 let me play more aggressively without the extent of dynamic consequences as with the ML-112, which for all its nuance and responsiveness is quite extrovert.

Prior to the H1203 I gigged an ML-112 for a year or so. I liked that cab a lot, and agree that it tends more towards the aggressive side of things, but I like having energy in that part of the spectrum (and don't particularly care for a lot of low-mid wool). The H1203 is a "kinder/gentler" take on the ML112 if you're comparing. Really just depends on what you like. In the end I wanted a smaller form factor than the ML112, was less about the sonic side of things.

 

[Type-55]

i'm not sure it's a "match" thing so much as it is a "what you hear as a good sound" thing.

i was very gung ho about the 800+ until i heard the thing you're talking about. for me it represents as a "closed" rather than "open" sound. for some people that's a feature; for me it's a flaw.

the puma can be a little too clean. i always have the taste at around 3 o'clock, which mushes it up a bit, but also can create some unwanted breakup when you play hard (which i can do). seems like it's always a series of compromises. at least for me.

Well said. I agree on the open and close thing. When I had the Puma with my TC112 it was so close to what I was looking for but then I started to hear this brittle quality to the attack of the note, and all of a sudden that's all I could hear. Maybe a Puma with warm compressor, lightly used, might be good.

 

[Type-55]

If you like La Bella flats, I HIGHLY recommend the La Bella Low Tension Flexible Flats. I used to use Deep Talking Flats and recently bought a set of almost all the other flats on the market to try them out. The Flexible Flats are amazing and really hit the sweet spot for tone and feel. They're deep and fat but not super dark and they feel smooth and taught like the DTF but much more flexible. They have a bit of "give."
As far as the D-800/Thunderchild goes, I just can't imagine not being able to tailor the low end to your liking, between plugging the ports and using EQ. I know what you're saying about loosing fullness on the high strings when you turn down the bass but I think that's just the nature of turning down the bass. You can't have fullness without bass, right? If you want less bass, you're not going to have as much fullness, no matter the rig. A variable HPF like on the D800+ is nice to have but you might find the same results I think. Keep in mind that plugging the ports has the same effect as turning up a HPF. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, Duke.) Or maybe you just want a good excuse to buy the 800+! I can't blame you there.

Plugging 2 ports in an x pattern really does help tighten up the lows. I think I would like to try a HPF to see if it will improve things.
Always something.

 

[adam montminy]

Yeah the pluggable ports in my 1533 are my favorite feature. I can't understand why no other manufacturers are doing this! It seems like a no-brainer.

 

[Type-55]

Just for a comparison I tried one of the 1505's when they came out.
Too agressive in the mids for me but as for a comparison the TC115 composite cab I have puts out way more low end.
Bigger box I think and a custom 15 driver.

 

[adam montminy]

Just for a comparison I tried one of the 1505's when they came out.
Too agressive in the mids for me but as for a comparison the TC115 composite cab I have puts out way more low end.
Bigger box I think and a custom 15 driver.

It sounds to me like you might be a perfect candidate for a 1533 like mine! It has the same low end as the 1505 but with mids and highs more like the 1203, less aggressive than the 1505 by the way Duke described it to me.
I usually use mine with the mid switch down and treble switch up or down, depending on the style, and it's a really nice match with my Walkabout. With smoother sounding amps, it sounds great with the mid switch up but it's a little much with the Walkabout's mid-heavy sound, for my ears.

 

[slagheap]

i stumbled into the AK world only due to the light weight & tiny footprint. the sound quality has been a bonus. just joined a new - new side band that throws shindigs in a factory loft/balcony, up where the offices are. have to schlepp everything through the shop, snake thru a bunch of bulkheads and only then up the dark and dangerous wood stairs. REALLY appreciate the hathors & microhead at that point.

 

[Snaxster]

Prior to the H1203 I gigged an ML-112 for a year or so. I liked that cab a lot, and agree that it tends more towards the aggressive side of things, but I like having energy in that part of the spectrum (and don't particularly care for a lot of low-mid wool). The H1203 is a "kinder/gentler" take on the ML112 if you're comparing. Really just depends on what you like. In the end I wanted a smaller form factor than the ML112, was less about the sonic side of things.

Smaller and much lighter. If the Hathor 1203 performed the same, but were in the next larger size bracket, it would be an excellent cabinet still. The fact that it performs as it does, yet is smaller and weighs just 25 pounds makes it a killer cabinet.

 

[John D Harris]

Well said. I agree on the open and close thing. When I had the Puma with my TC112 it was so close to what I was looking for but then I started to hear this brittle quality to the attack of the note, and all of a sudden that's all I could hear. Maybe a Puma with warm compressor, lightly used, might be good.

You might want to check out the Eich amps - similar, but different (from what I've heard 2nd hand) - clear, but with heft & musical warmth.
I think Mark A has some audio clips of a T-900.

 

[John D Harris]

Thought I'd post a pic if my set up from the gig last night. Spector - Quilter BB800 - Hathor 212. I was DI'd to the house with a nice sub. Sounded huge!
I'm really digging the Quilter.
View attachment 1096042

It's a perfect fit for the top of the H212!

 

[MarkA]

You might want to check out the Eich amps - similar, but different (from what I've heard 2nd hand) - clear, but with heft & musical warmth.
I think Mark A has some audio clips of a T-900.

I made and posted a youtube clip here, yesterday: My Eich T900 arrived

The clip is D.I. only but, as it happens, I was monitoring through a Hathor 1203 (with both switches up and the port plugged -- I like the port unplugged, too, but leave the switches up most of the time). The Hathor has its own voice -- the zigs and zags Duke has mentioned -- which I dig, but it responds well to EQ and will, I think, let the character of what you hear through the DI come through (albeit with a bit of its -- to my ear, pleasant -- coloration). The Eich and the 1203 seem well suited to each other so far.

I tried a Glockenklang Heart Rock 2 through the 1203 and it sounds beautiful, but that head weighs nearly twice what the cab does (more in a rack).

On a miscellaneous note, the 1203 seems to combine well with my MAS 110 sub -- I've only played that combo at home, so I can't say yet how they'll hold together at volume, but, so far, it seems like they were made for each other. I've been plugging the port when stacking the 1203 with the sub.

So, yeah, I picked up a 1203 (thanks, maisbass). Still getting to know it, but I'm digging it so far.

 

[basss]

@DukeLeJeune I'm interested in hearing more about the 1x10 cab you have in the pipeline. Can you give us any more details?