AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[Snaxster]

On a miscellaneous note, the 1203 seems to combine well with my MAS 110 sub -- I've only played that combo at home, so I can't say yet how they'll hold together at volume, but, so far, it seems like they were made for each other. I've been plugging the port when stacking the 1203 with the sub.

Mark, my experience stacking the H1203 with an ML-112 was similar:

On Monday I received a Baer ML-112 Series 1, and it was good. On Tuesday it was time for round two of "What plays nice with the Hathor I put on it?" The amp was Kern preamp/send to sfx micro-Thumpinator/return > Glockenklang Blue Rock flat and clean. Briefly, then,

• With the Hathor 1203's port open, the two cabs subtly fought each other in the low end. More than sounded, it felt like slight vertigo during a bass head cold.

• Then I plugged the Hathor's port and the two cabs sounded excellent together, as if they were meant to be so. I mean strong, practically seamless, very natural, spatial, and simply quite euphonic.

• That settled, any of the three H1203 high and mid switches settings I prefer sounded good in the stack (all except both up, that is).

• Set to my liking, the H1203/M-112 stack sounded far better than my recollection of how the H1203/F112 stack sounded.

Anti-cabinet mix 'n' match-ers keep moving; nothing to hear or see here. But you're missing out on a good combo...

 

[DukeLeJeune]

eh . . . for what i like, jet engine or no, i much prefer the way your stuff sounds to any of the stuff mike has made that i've heard. not exhaustive in way, as i've not heard all of his stuff. i have heard them back to back for a few different models with some of your models (at no static's house more then few times; it's good to have crazy friends!). his stuff is not my thing, while yours is.

Thank you!! I'll keep flying my old P-51 and trying to ambush his jets when they come in for a landing!!

there was a whole lot to unpack in this post of yours. took me a few rereads.

so questions:

bigger bottle/volume, longer the low notes get held/linger?

ostensbily, tc112 with one port closed will have better pitch definition (but less low end) than with both ports open?

Yes! As you correctly surmised, we also get better pitch definition by moving the tuning frequency lower (via ye olde port plugs), because that way it's farther from the frequencies that we're using.

Have you tried plugging either 2 or all 4 ports? I've got a TC115 v.1 too. That might fix the problem. Duke recommends that if you plug 2 of them you should do it on the diagonal.

I used to be paranoid about plugging 1 or 3 ports, which would result in a slightly asymmetrical air-load on the back of the cone. I'm no longer paranoid about that, so feel free to plug however many ports you need to get the best low end for your tone.

Duke has mentioned that a bit of his inspiration for the TC AF implementation came from hearing me play EUB through the original TC112 at a Seattle GTG.The first time I heard the TC112AF v1 with my BSX bass I could tell more or less instantly that it was a home run. I still feel the same way about that 6 years later too.

Thank you Charlie! Your encouragement played a huge role in the Thunderchild happening, and when I saw you standing behind the cab to play your EUB, that's when I realized that you needed some highs back there.

To try to pin down what I was hearing today, I played two different enough basses through the same stack: Baer Valkyrie > ML-112, then switched to Hathor 1203. Even engaging both of the Hathor 1203's switches (which normally I never do) and driving it a little harder, I could not make it sound in any way as unruly and slightly pissed off as the ML-112 did even when barely driven.

I've only heard the ML-112 once (at a GTG in Seattle), but my thought was, "Dangit, that sounds GOOD. That's some SERIOUS competition!" Nice job, Roger!!

I like the way we "boo-teek" cab makers have gravitated towards different voicings such that you guys end up with a pretty good variety to choose from. How boring it would be if we were all doing the same voicing!

Just for a comparison I tried one of the 1505's when they came out. Too agressive in the mids for me but as for a comparison the TC115 composite cab I have puts out way more low end. Bigger box I think and a custom 15 driver.

My priorities shifted. The original TC115 was mainly trying to compete with Greenboy's 115's, and I went for a bit more efficiency but less low end extension and a bit more portable box. Then afterwards I came up with a strategy for how to "voice" a cab for electric bass, and that called for a somewhat different woofer voicing, which was incompatible with the parameters that would give the woofer a really big low end, but did result in higher efficiency. So Hathors 1505 and 1533, and the Thunderchild 115v3, all have less low end than the original Thunderchild 115, for better or for worse. Personally I always preferred at least two plugs in place on the original Thunderchild 115s, at least when I was testing them out.

 

[Type-55]

Duke said "Personally I always preferred at least two plugs in place on the original Thunderchild 115s, at least when I was testing them out."

I agree completely.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke said "Personally I always preferred at least two plugs in place on the original Thunderchild 115s, at least when I was testing them out."

I agree completely.

Over the years I have shifted more towards low-end voicings that "leave more room for the kick", though my 118s have been (and will be again, once I get them back into the game) exceptions to that trend.

So, yeah, I picked up a 1203..

Welcome to the dark side!

On a miscellaneous note, the 1203 seems to combine well with my MAS 110 sub -- I've only played that combo at home, so I can't say yet how they'll hold together at volume, but, so far, it seems like they were made for each other. I've been plugging the port when stacking the 1203 with the sub.

You know who the first person was to tell me about that combination? Mike Arnopol! He could tell what the Hathor 1203 sounds like just from what he knows about the drivers used and my description to him of what I was trying to do, and in his mind's ear he combined that with his MAS 110 and told me that he thought it would be a great combination. He also likes his MAS 109 with the Hathor 1203... again, he can hear it in his head.

@DukeLeJeune I'm interested in hearing more about the 1x10 cab you have in the pipeline. Can you give us any more details?

Will do, but let me mull it over a bit and decide how much I want to say.

 

[ahc]

I used to be paranoid about plugging 1 or 3 ports, which would result in a slightly asymmetrical air-load on the back of the cone. I'm no longer paranoid about that, so feel free to plug however many ports you need to get the best low end for your tone.

 

[John D Harris]

Well said. I agree on the open and close thing. When I had the Puma with my TC112 it was so close to what I was looking for but then I started to hear this brittle quality to the attack of the note, and all of a sudden that's all I could hear. Maybe a Puma with warm compressor, lightly used, might be good.

Check this out (it's a Eich T1000, but I'm betting the same preamp as the T900) - (BTW: Awesome Bass Player):

 

[John D Harris]

Check this out (it's a Eich T1000, but I'm betting the same preamp as the T900) - (BTW: Awesome Bass Player):

Sorry for the clutter, but just found this:

 

[steubig]

i'm pretty sure the 1000 pre section has some added stuff like a deep switch (or whatever they call it)

 

[DukeLeJeune]

@DukeLeJeune I'm interested in hearing more about the 1x10 cab you have in the pipeline. Can you give us any more details?

The 110 cab I'm working on uses the Kappalite 3010LF. At this stage I do not yet know how much filtering will be needed to get the woofer to behave itself. On paper its native response curve looks to me like some serious response-shaping is called for, BUT I'm going to give it a chance to show me what it can do with minimal circuitry... it might turn out to be a flavor of “good” that I don't yet know about.

The upper frequencies will be handled in a way that will not be identical to the Hathor cabs, but there will be some similarities. If all goes well, the dispersion characteristics will be somewhat adjustable.

Dimensions of the enclosure itself (not counting corners and a bit of grille pooch-outage) will be 18” tall by 14” wide by 10” deep... same as the Birdhaus 48. So I think the form factor will be pretty nice. I will of course try to keep the weight and cost reasonable, but both will to a certain extent be influenced by how many big inductors I have to use in the crossover. Weight will hopefully be a little bit less than the Hathor 1203, but probably not by much.

There is a chance this cab will be a bit better suited for double-bass than the Hathor 1203, so it might find a niche with doublers. But I will have to get further along before the cab can really tell me what it wants to be.

 

[Passinwind]

I will have to get further along before the cab can really tell me what it wants to be.

Heh, I say the same thing about preamp and amp builds all the time Duke. I also conceive of it as listening to how it wants to breathe...

 

[mam1862]

I recently picked up this Birdhaus from another member and this thing is unbelievable. I find myself leaving my Composite 212 and reaching for the Birdhaus. I've been running a Mesa D800 thru it. The last 3 gigs I've had I've been told the bass sounds real good and sits in the mix nicely.

Duke your cabs are fantastic!

 

[TomB]

Duke said "Personally I always preferred at least two plugs in place on the original Thunderchild 115s, at least when I was testing them out."

I agree completely.

Likewise... but not outdoors. Without room reflections the big low end is a benefit.

 

[tallboybass]

I recently picked up this Birdhaus from another member and this thing is unbelievable.

Is that the one with 6's or 8's?

Also, I'm wondering what it is about a cab with 10" drivers that makes it much more exciting to some people, as opposed to a 12-incher that weighs 25 pounds?

 

[mam1862]

This one has 8" drivers.

 

[basss]

Also, I'm wondering what it is about a cab with 10" drivers that makes it much more exciting to some people, as opposed to a 12-incher that weighs 25 pounds?

For me it's public transportation and jazz gigs that sometimes get a little loud. I have a compact 12 cab that I like but it would be nice to have something super small that can take some power and push decent lows. I have a genz shuttle 10t which gets close but sometimes is a bit soft when the drummer gets excited. A 3010lf based cab might be the ticket.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I recently picked up this Birdhaus from another member and this thing is unbelievable. I find myself leaving my Composite 212 and reaching for the Birdhaus. I've been running a Mesa D800 thru it. The last 3 gigs I've had I've been told the bass sounds real good and sits in the mix nicely.

Thank you very much!!

Also, I'm wondering what it is about a cab with 10" drivers that makes it much more exciting to some people, as opposed to a 12-incher that weighs 25 pounds?

If there are no mids or tweets involved, it's generally more practical to design good top-end performance into a 10" cone (if nothing else, a 10" cone will have better dispersion than a bigger cone, and imo dispersion is part of tone). Once mids and tweets come into play, imo the bigger cones start making more sense.

In the case of the 110 I'm working on, at this point the only thing I can say that it will offer for sure is a more compact and easier one-hand carry. This is because the shallow 10" cabinet depth puts the center of gravity closer to your body, sort of like a suitcase.

Just about everything in bass cab design involves tradeoffs, so in exchange for approximately twice the excursion of most 10" woofers, the Kappalite 3010LF ends up with a weak top end.

For me it's public transportation and jazz gigs that sometimes get a little loud. I have a compact 12 cab that I like but it would be nice to have something super small that can take some power and push decent lows. I have a genz shuttle 10t which gets close but sometimes is a bit soft when the drummer gets excited. A 3010lf based cab might be the ticket.

Thanks for posting this, you made me re-think how to do the handle. I had been planning to use a strap-type handle out of space constraints, but I will try to figure out a way to use the full-sized handles that I normally use, which are easier on your hand if you have to carry the cab a long ways.

 

[steubig]

Just about everything in bass cab design involves tradeoffs

^^ this is very true—and i'd say that it goes into amplification as well.

 

[nostatic]

Thank you very much!!



If there are no mids or tweets involved, it's generally more practical to design good top-end performance into a 10" cone (if nothing else, a 10" cone will have better dispersion than a bigger cone, and imo dispersion is part of tone). Once mids and tweets come into play, imo the bigger cones start making more sense.

In the case of the 110 I'm working on, at this point the only thing I can say that it will offer for sure is a more compact and easier one-hand carry. This is because the shallow 10" cabinet depth puts the center of gravity closer to your body, sort of like a suitcase.

Just about everything in bass cab design involves tradeoffs, so in exchange for approximately twice the excursion of most 10" woofers, the Kappalite 3010LF ends up with a weak top end.



Thanks for posting this, you made me re-think how to do the handle. I had been planning to use a strap-type handle out of space constraints, but I will try to figure out a way to use the full-sized handles that I normally use, which are easier on your hand if you have to carry the cab a long ways.

Hate strap handles. If you need to go flat, fold out can work.

Shallow cabs are a huge win in my book. Tall helps too.

 

[tallboybass]

For me it's public transportation and jazz gigs that sometimes get a little loud. I have a compact 12 cab that I like but it would be nice to have something super small that can take some power and push decent lows. I have a genz shuttle 10t which gets close but sometimes is a bit soft when the drummer gets excited. A 3010lf based cab might be the ticket.

I have the same GB Shuttle combo + ext. cab....you have a good point.

In the case of the 110 I'm working on, at this point the only thing I can say that it will offer for sure is a more compact and easier one-hand carry. This is because the shallow 10" cabinet depth puts the center of gravity closer to your body, sort of like a suitcase.

I get it now.

 

[steubig]

Shallow cabs are a huge win in my book. Tall helps too.

shallow and tall. um, we're talking cabs?