AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[DukeLeJeune]

I tried the ThunderChild 112 a few months ago & it didn't do it for me with dirty guitar, but I suspect that was due to the horn driver.

Do any Hathor users have input on what distorted guitar sounds like through one?

@DukeLeJeune , any users out there multi-taking with guitar through a Hathor?

Unfortunately I would not recommend any of my current bass cabs for dirty/distorted electric guitar.

But I do have an idea for a double-duty (electric bass and electric guitar) cab. It would be about the size of that Thunderchild cab you tried, and a little bit heavier.

...unable to try before I buy...

As long as you're not in a really big hurry, I'm gonna need a beta tester.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Thanks for the feedback, I think I will ask RevSound for a quote on his 2x8" with some more wide-range drivers. I noticed the stock drivers are limited to 5 kHz.
There have been some reports on the SVT-210AV doing ok with guitar & the size is just about right, but I've yet to hear reports on the T.E. Elf 2x8".

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Thanks for the feedback, I think I will ask RevSound for a quote on his 2x8" with some more wide-range drivers. I noticed the stock drivers are limited to 5 kHz.

David Luke of RevSound may well be the very best person out there for what you're looking for.

And, I'm not sure that significant extension north of 5 kHz is necessarily desirable if you're going to use heavy distortion. Distortion = a LOT of higher-order harmonic content, and I'm under the impression that the natural top-end rolloff of guitar speakers helps to keep all of those exaggerated upper harmonics from sounding too bright and harsh.

 

[mexicanyella]

David Luke of RevSound may well be the very best person out there for what you're looking for.

And, I'm not sure that significant extension north of 5 kHz is necessarily desirable if you're going to use heavy distortion. Distortion = a LOT of higher-order harmonic content, and I'm under the impression that the natural top-end rolloff of guitar speakers helps to keep all of those exaggerated upper harmonics from sounding too bright and harsh.

I think my experiments with running distorted guitar through my Birdhaus 48 bear this out. I use the parametric EQ, set for the 2-band shelving option, in my preamp on the patches I've tweaked for guitar, and what approximates a "high-gain dirty amp and guitar speaker sound" to my ear involves gentle rolloff below 250 Hz (or slightly steeper rolloff below 100 Hz) and--this is a crucial adjustment--gentle top-end rolloff starting at either 2.4 kHz or 3.6 kHz. I'm talking maybe -2 or -4 dB at those shelving frequencies.
Adjusting at the 4.8 kHz shelving point requires pretty big cuts to influence the crucial upper-mid distorted guitar frequencies, and to my ear sounds artificial and hyped.

Keep in mind that I'm going for sounds in the 70s/80s Marshall universe when I reach for a high gain sound, and I shy away from what I hear as spitty, woofy "modern-rock" Mesa dual rectifier-esque sounds. Those might respond better to more extreme low and high frequency content to those who like that kind of thing.

But in any case, I think you are not going to need extention much past 4 kHz to get some ripping crunch, and you might find yourself cutting quite a bit in that area anyway.

Also keep in mind that my guitar is a strat-type with a single bridge humbucker, fixed bridge and no shortage of bright, and it's a little shy on the lows...if you play a darker guitar or one with less screaming upper harmonics you might be reaching for more shaping of the highs than me. I play pretty hard and hamfisted, and find myself turning lows down on almost anything, and turning up the mids and the bright for texture...backing off just enough that it doesn't make my teeth hurt. I seem to have no shortage of ability to force unwanted lows into and out of amps...

 

[mmbongo]

First band practice with a Changeling 112...wish me luck!

 

[nostatic]

Careful you don't put an eye out or something.

 

[mmbongo]

Thanks for the feedback, I think I will ask RevSound for a quote on his 2x8" with some more wide-range drivers. I noticed the stock drivers are limited to 5 kHz.
There have been some reports on the SVT-210AV doing ok with guitar & the size is just about right, but I've yet to hear reports on the T.E. Elf 2x8".

Keep in mind that guitar speakers that are designed for distorted guitar are also 'limited' to 5khz.

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I have noticed this, and was just reviewing the Freq. Response chart for a Celestion designed for guitar, which also dropped drastically at 5 kHz.

I've had arguments with more than a couple of people here on TB over it, and they usually get really ticked off. I was just reviewing one of my old threads in this sub-forum yesterday & perplexed at how aggressive people can get over using a bass cabinet for guitar. You'd think I was committing a crime against Nature or something.

Should have never given up my Markbass 2x10", which was thoroughly trash-talked by a TB member who got to hear it in person.

 

[Chef]

Studio time with that new thing

 

[mmbongo]

I have noticed this, and was just reviewing the Freq. Response chart for a Celestion designed for guitar, which also dropped drastically at 5 kHz.

I've had arguments with more than a couple of people here on TB over it, and they usually get really ticked off. I was just reviewing one of my old threads in this sub-forum yesterday & perplexed at how aggressive people can get over using a bass cabinet for guitar. You'd think I was committing a crime against Nature or something.

Should have never given up my Markbass 2x10", which was thoroughly trash-talked by a TB member who got to hear it in person.

Give me a few days and I'll test my guitar rig through the Changeling 112. I don't see why it wouldn't sound fantastic.

 

[John D Harris]

Not sure if this has been posted on here, but I think you could do a lot with an OmniCabSim Deluxe & a cab like one of the ThunderChild (Hathors might actuallly work better) dsm-noisemaker

 

[mmbongo]

Not sure if this has been posted on here, but I think you could do a lot with an OmniCabSim Deluxe & a cab like one of the ThunderChild (Hathors might actuallly work better) dsm-noisemaker

I believe most of the Audiokinesis cabs have most of those functions built in. Low pass filter, mid voicing, tuneable lows...

 

[John D Harris]

I believe most of the Audiokinesis cabs have most of those functions built in. Low pass filter, mid voicing, tuneable lows...

I see what you mean.
My point was with an FRFR (I consider the ThunderChild cabs to be close enough to being these) type cabinet the OCS allows it to sound like a multitude of different configured cabs (8x10 sealed to a 2x12 ported) with the twist of a few knobs.
The cab size & resonance controls would (IMO) set it apart from the options presented with Duke's solutions.

 

[mexicanyella]

KBD, if a guitar sounds good to you through bass speakers, then it sounds good to you. I believe the important thing about guitar is that it's not too hi-fidelity-dependent; any guitar through any rig will sound appropriate for some situation. It's freeing!

Tell you what...cranking my guitar through my old Peavey TKO115S, compressor in front, bright switch on, lows cut, upper mids gently peaked on the graphic EQ, high-gain input, pre and post gain both on 7 or so...don't let anyone tell you you cant get a good loud classic rock "kerrang" out of a 15" Scorpion in a ported cabinet. Not as detailed in the highs as my guitar amp were, but a totally useful rhythm or soloing sound with lots of SLAM to it. Not fiddly to dial in, consistent results, and consistenly heavy and unpleasant to carry. Tweed 4 x 10 bassmans aren't the only bass amps that can sound good with guitar. Keep looking and trying stuff.

 

[monsterthompson]

I see what you mean.
My point was with an FRFR (I consider the ThunderChild cabs to be close enough to being these) type cabinet the OCS allows it to sound like a multitude of different configured cabs (8x10 sealed to a 2x12 ported) with the twist of a few knobs.
The cab size & resonance controls would (IMO) set it apart from the options presented with Duke's solutions.

I find it a pretty useful tool with my Barefaced BB2 (also FRFR). I think the OCSD (or other similar sim pedals) work splendidly with Duke’s cabs.

 

[DennyOnBass]

I can't speak for distorted guitar, but I used my Aguliar AG700 and Hathor 1203 with my Taylor acoustic last night for a solstice service I was playing. Both switches down and the amp set flat save for a cut on the bass knob to keep it from being boomy. Should have brought my port plug as well to tighten it up a bit, but a doctor friend of mine with some really nice acoustic guitar gear hit me up after the set to compliment me on the sound and find out what I was playing through.

 

[Passinwind]

I see what you mean.
My point was with an FRFR (I consider the ThunderChild cabs to be close enough to being these) type cabinet the OCS allows it to sound like a multitude of different configured cabs (8x10 sealed to a 2x12 ported) with the twist of a few knobs.
The cab size & resonance controls would (IMO) set it apart from the options presented with Duke's solutions.

Yep. I've posted about using modelers of various sorts with my TC cab quite a few times. It really a whole different thing, and loading impulses of Duke's various voicing options into a good modeler would be way cool. Some of the ones I've used could model both real and virtual instruments too, not just amps and cabs.

 

[mmbongo]

@Killed_by_Death

I've got my Fender Super Champ X2 guitar amp hooked up to the Changeling 112T as we speak, and the results are a win. It sounds fantastic for a bass cab on guitar, probably the best you're going to get for a couple of reasons. Firstly let me say it's NOT going to take the place of a high end guitar cabinet for all situations. Guitar speakers are a completely different design with very light cones, LOTS of midrange, and zero bottom end...all of which equals very high sensitivity.

Now with that being said, no does not have the sheer loudness of a dedicated guitar cabinet. It's not going to put you over a loud drummer and bass player, but I think you said it would just be for home and practice use which would be fantastic. Also at this point keep in mind that my guitar amp is only 15 watts but I didn't really have the need to go above around 3 on the volume.

Here's why this cab makes a good guitar cab: paper cone mids. Just like a guitar speaker. One front firing, one rear firing...just like an open back guitar cabinet. I engaged the low pass filter...which mimics a guitar speaker. It sounds great. The problem with using most bass cabs for guitar is that they either don't have a tweeter so they sound like a wet blanket thrown over a mud hole, or they DO have a tweeter and they sound like an ice pick being jammed into your ear. The Changeling cab has neither of those issues thanks to the mid drivers and the configuration switches. It also does not have the annoying 'beaming' mids that guitar cabs have. You can hear this one anywhere you are.

It has a nice smooth bottom end without being boomy. I like all the ports open for bass, and I didn't plug any of them. But I'll bet plugging them would get you a snappier bottom end for guitar.

I think you would be very happy with the Changeling as a full time bass cab/part time guitar cab. It will not replace a nice 2x12 guitar cab as far as sheer volume, as they are just different design goals. But it will allow you to not have to buy a dedicated guitar cab for occasional use.

The way to think about it is this...if get one for a bass cab you don't compromise anything on the bass side. And it also works fine as a part time guitar cab.

If you get something like a 2x8, you compromise big time on the bass side, and it still won't work as well on the guitar side as a Changeling because of the dedicated mid drivers.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

So what is the Changeling?, a modified version of the Hathor or ThunderChild?
I'm not seeing anything about it on the AK site.
Thanks for the experiment!

 

[mmbongo]

So what is the Changeling?, a modified version of the Hathor or ThunderChild?
I'm not seeing anything about it on the AK site.
Thanks for the experiment!

The Changeling is similar to a Hathor 1203, but it adds a rear facing mid driver. It's a new cab that Duke has in the beta stages right now.

I did a recording of me playing guitar through the Changeling. I was kinda torn on posting it because it's NOT a professional recording and I'm NOT a guitar player! I don't want to misrepresent Dukes cab here, so please keep in mind this was done on a handheld $99 Zoom recorder just sitting in front of the cab. But I think it actually does a pretty good job of conveying what it sounds like on guitar.

The amp is a Fender Super Champ X2 on the 'Soldano' channel (because as a budding guitarist in the 90's I played Soldano amps and this actually is a pretty good model of them). Guitar is a PRS SE with P90 humbuckers so it does a fantastic crunch, but I also switch over to the clean channel and those humbuckers just don't clean up like single coils but you can still get an idea.

And again, I'm not a guitar player. Until today I hadn't played guitar at all in maybe 2 years! So please don't hold my recording quality and guitar skills against Duke's cabs