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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

#761
Marial said:
I heard back from Duke, and it looks like I'll order a TC212 as soon as I have the balance of the purchase price.
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I haven't played that cab, but when I had my 2x12 fEARful it flat our kicked ass. (I know there not the same cab, but they're probably more alike than different) A cab that light that kicks that hard is awesome.

Duke it was great meeting you at the GTG, you make outstanding cabs.
 
#762
Anyone played through both a TC112 and a Greenboy Bassic 12 (Faital 12PR300) + horn to compare? I've been thinking about both of these while looking for a cab with a small footprint and decent volume and low end. People seem to use similar wording to describe them compared to the fearFuls: smoother, less low end extension.
 
#763
Selta said:
The Quake bass is definitely something people need to hear to appreciate... Duke's cabs did those the Quake very well though - better than any commercial cab I've heard hands down.
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knuckle_head said:
I have to say that the 1855 gave more tonal content to this bass at this tuning than any full range cab I can recall - there are certainly numerous musical applications with this bass/cab combo.
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Thank you both very much. To the best of my knowledge that was the first time any of cabs have encountered the Quake, and fortunately I brought along the only cab I've ever done that might survive such an encounter!

knuckle_head said:
The G# shines in a studio environment where the signal is not truncated or diminished, and where the monitoring system gives you flat [to] human threshold - this has you where most of us as players live any way. No fundamental and everything second harmonic and up.
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Seems to me the live sound world is missing out, not having a cab that can deliver the second harmonic of your G# outside of the studio environment. Somebody should do something about that.

cableguy said:
I haven't played that cab, but when I had my 2x12 fEARful it flat our kicked ass. (I know there not the same cab, but they're probably more alike than different) A cab that light that kicks that hard is awesome.

Duke it was great meeting you at the GTG, you make outstanding cabs.
Click to expand...

Thank you, it was great meeting you and all the rest of the Seattle crew!

My cabs are smaller than Greenboy's for a given woofer complement, as I'm trading off low end for portability. I'm under the impression that the fEARful cabs are voiced more aggressively in the lower treble region than my cabs are, so the "flavor" is probably a bit different.

andreiscv said:
Anyone played through both a TC112 and a Greenboy Bassic 12 + horn to compare? I've been thinking about both of these while looking for a cab with a small footprint and decent volume and low end. People seem to use similar wording to describe them compared to the fearFuls: smoother, less low end extension.
Click to expand...

I didn't know Greenboy had a Bassic 12 + horn, had to look it up. Different woofers, different horn, probably somewhat different philosophy... but I'd definitely be interested in hearing from anyone who's heard both.
 
#766
I've pulled the plug on the Hathor 1231. I built a prototype and did some listening and comparing, and imo the tweeter simply is not worth the added trouble and expense. The price would have been $150 higher, and the weight would have gone up to 26 pounds.

That being said, the switchable midrange smoother circuitry is clearly beneficial, and my present plan is to offer it as an option, and call the resulting cab the Hathor 1203S ("S" for "smooth"). This brings the weight up to 25 pounds and adds fifty bucks to the price, which imo is more reasonable. And the top end of that little 3" Faital mid is good enough that I don't think anyone will miss having a for-real tweeter.
 
#769
nostatic said:
smooth could be good or bad. Hence the switch I suppose...
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Yup, and my current plan is to make inclusion of the switch optional, so if you know in advance you won't needed it, save fifty bucks and a pound (the actual weight difference with the two 15-gauge inductors needed is more than a pound, but rounding up to the nearest pound, we get 25 pounds with switch and 24 pounds without).

Jeff Scott said:
2 tweeters might work if they were splayed to compensate for the off axis reduction in output of the 3FE22. But then the cost and weight would go up even more.
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Actually, it was two tweeters! I just hadn't gone public with that detail yet. Not splayed - they were 1" domes that had a pretty wide pattern to begin with.

But I see what you mean, taking advantage of the 3FE22's on-axis energy while using splayed tweeters to fill in off-axis. That would work, but I'd still probably need to dial back the 3FE22 a bit because it puts out a lot of energy between 7 kHz and 15 kHz.

What I found was that the tweeters added a little bit of clarity on cymbals and such, but for its intended use, the top end (including dispersion) of that little Faital in its open-format mid chamber is pretty good. And if someone does want an uber-hifi cab, the Thunderchild 112 would be a better choice.
 
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#771
andreiscv said:
I edited my post to be more specific with the Faital 12PR300
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Ime the Faital 12PR300 is remarkably smooth for a prosound woofer, especially a relatively affordable one. I have to use six crossover components to get comparable smoothness out of the Kappalite 3012LF. The Kappalite has considerably greater air-moving capability; imo Faital's formula for x-max is somewhat optimistic. If that greater air-moving capability isn't needed, the 12PR300 starts to really stand out.

Speaking of Faital's x-max specs, when I make claims about the air-moving capability of my cabs that use Faital woofers (TC118, Hathor 1855), I base those claims on x-max = voice coil overhang + 15%, which is a more conservative formula than Faital uses. So the woofer in the 1855 has a claimed x-max of 12.45 mm, but I end up using 9.7 mm for my calculations. That's still a lot, and in all fairness to Faital, their optimistic-seeming x-max numbers do seem to correlate well with where fartout sets in.

Jeff Scott said:
Exactly. For my own needs, however, I don't need a bass cab to go that high (these days I wouldn't hear that, anyway :crying:).
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I must confess that when I do cabs with fancy PA-style horns and compression drivers, in the back of my mind, they are multirole cabs. I like it when bass players are pleasantly surprised to find they work well with other instruments.
 
#772
DukeLeJeune said:
I've pulled the plug on the Hathor 1231. I built a prototype and did some listening and comparing, and imo the tweeter simply is not worth the added trouble and expense. The price would have been $150 higher, and the weight would have gone up to 26 pounds.

That being said, the switchable midrange smoother circuitry is clearly beneficial, and my present plan is to offer it as an option, and call the resulting cab the Hathor 1203S ("S" for "smooth"). This brings the weight up to 25 pounds and adds fifty bucks to the price, which imo is more reasonable. And the top end of that little 3" Faital mid is good enough that I don't think anyone will miss having a for-real tweeter.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I was curious as to what a tweeter would add to the 1203, as it seemed to have a wonderful top end, as is. The optional smoothing switch sounds like a no-brainer, though. Nice! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
#773
andreiscv said:
Anyone played through both a TC112 and a Greenboy Bassic 12 (Faital 12PR300) + horn to compare? I've been thinking about both of these while looking for a cab with a small footprint and decent volume and low end. People seem to use similar wording to describe them compared to the fearFuls: smoother, less low end extension.
Click to expand...

DukeLeJeune said:
I didn't know Greenboy had a Bassic 12 + horn, had to look it up. Different woofers, different horn, probably somewhat different philosophy... but I'd definitely be interested in hearing from anyone who's heard both.
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I have not played through a TC112, but I have played through 3012LF loaded cabs and the greenboy bassic 12. The 3012LF is going to let the TC have a bit more capability in low end volume I would think. The main similarity and difference is these two cabs have horns. Where they differ a lot is that the TC112 has the horn pick up where the woofer is crossed over. So it is doing the lifting through the mids and highs. The Bassic 12 on the other hand has a full range woofer that is run so. The tweeter is just there to add some sparkle up top. You get a lot of that "full range woofer" sound out of the Bassic. It feels a little more old school than a mid driver loaded cab.

Different cabs, different goals. Wouldnt be sad to see either provided as backline.
 
#774
I had my first show using the Hathor 1544 and an Ampeg PF500( I was given on loan to try ) for my funk gig on Saturday evening at a local casino. It packs a fantastic punch and I could feel the bass as much as hear it. I love that in a setup. I first went with an Aguilar TH head but found it a bit too dirty for my tastes in conjunction with this cab. If I was playing straight rock it would be amazing. I've ordered a PF800 but the 500 did just fine. A nice pairing for a Classic bass tone that is warm and full. A real booty shaker !
 
#775
DukeLeJeune said:
Speaking of Faital's x-max specs, when I make claims about the air-moving capability of my cabs that use Faital woofers (TC118, Hathor 1855), I base those claims on x-max = voice coil overhang + 15%, which is a more conservative formula than Faital uses. So the woofer in the 1855 has a claimed x-max of 12.45 mm, but I end up using 9.7 mm for my calculations. That's still a lot, and in all fairness to Faital, their optimistic-seeming x-max numbers do seem to correlate well with where fartout sets in.
Click to expand...

The pole piece and top plate could be designed to produce a field geometry with field lines extending outside the gap, providing a transitional fringe field, such that the drive level is gradually lost as the voice coil leaves the gap. A usable field is maintained for a few mm outside the gap. The onset of 'fart-out' would be gradual rather than sudden. Kind of a 'soft clipping' design. There would be some sacrifice of in-gap field intensity and some loss of sensitivity for a given size/strength magnet, but there would be a gain in useful excursion range. I have read about this, but do not know if this is the case with the Faital drivers. If Faital has done this, their Xmax figures may be providing an accurate description of 'usable' excursion.
 
#776
CL400Peavey said:
I have not played through a TC112, but I have played through 3012LF loaded cabs and the greenboy bassic 12. The 3012LF is going to let the TC have a bit more capability in low end volume I would think. The main similarity and difference is these two cabs have horns. Where they differ a lot is that the TC112 has the horn pick up where the woofer is crossed over. So it is doing the lifting through the mids and highs. The Bassic 12 on the other hand has a full range woofer that is run so. The tweeter is just there to add some sparkle up top. You get a lot of that "full range woofer" sound out of the Bassic. It feels a little more old school than a mid driver loaded cab.

Different cabs, different goals. Wouldn't be sad to see either provided as backline.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to post your observations here.

Just for the record, the crossover in the TC112 is around 2 kHz, so by my definition of "mids", they're mostly coming from the woofer. I smooth out the top octave of the 3012LF, and then provide a switch so that you can toggle between smooth and slightly aggressive upper mids (on the 8 ohm version anyway).

Session1969 said:
I had my first show using the Hathor 1544 and an Ampeg PF500( I was given on loan to try ) for my funk gig on Saturday evening at a local casino. It packs a fantastic punch and I could feel the bass as much as hear it. I love that in a setup. I first went with an Aguilar TH head but found it a bit too dirty for my tastes in conjunction with this cab. If I was playing straight rock it would be amazing. I've ordered a PF800 but the 500 did just fine. A nice pairing for a Classic bass tone that is warm and full. A real booty shaker !
Click to expand...

Thanks, glad to hear it's working well for you!
 
#778
Mark Sacchetti said:
Duke
Any update on the Birdhaus?
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The Birdhaus is on its way to its beta tester, who helped to inspire it. Should arrive on Friday, hopefully in time for the acoustic gig he has that evening (acoustic guitar, piano, and him on double bass).
 
#780
John D Harris said:
Bump for AudioKinesis updates...
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There's been some activity at either end of the spectrum.

Reports back from my beta-tester on the little Birdhaus 4x6 have been positive about everything except the weight. Tonality on upright bass, dispersion in an acoustic gig setting, and form factor all got a thumbs-up, but at 22 pounds it's just a little on the heavy side for a comfortable long one-handed schlep. He's going to try it with the bow next.

My interest in doing a cab aimed at the first overtone of Skip Fantry's G#00-tuned Quake bass has taken me down the rabbit hole. Same tradeoffs we always see, but now things are inevitably skewed in a direction that results in a considerably bigger box. My goal is TC115/118-class SPL capability but with extension down to 26 Hz (-3 dB), after EQ.
 
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