Interesting. Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to hearing your recordings. As a matter of fact, listening to some of your older recordings is what convinced me (in part, anyway) to try out the TC112.
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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Wow nostatic and steubig, thank you very much! I think you guys nailed it.
The "compression" observation about the Hathor 1203 is a good call. It's literally true! The small air volume in that box results in higher internal pressures, which resists the cone motion - so yes it compresses, because of air compression! And unfortunately air is a non-linear spring, so the more you compress it, the more it resists. This is a disadvantage of a small box. So why did I go with? Well bigger cabs with the same or similar woofer were already being done, so in the interest of offering a bit more variety, I went for small-as-I-could, and there are tradeoffs along the way.
Glad to hear the "gank meter" didn't go into the red zone. I have to credit Mike Arnopol with raising my gank awareness. In the Hathor cabs I've deliberately tried to stay away from emphasizing certain parts of the spectrum, and gank (yes that's the scientific term) is one of them.
Also have to give credit to Jeff Hedback aka IronJaw. A couple of years ago he made some direct-feed recordings of his P-bass for me, and I rely heavily on those for "voicing" the Hathor cabs. They also helped me with the grindy/smoothy switch on the 8-ohm Thunderchild 112 and 115 cabs, though admittedly there's not a huge difference between those two settings because there's not much bumpage to work with in the grindy zone (more scientific terminology) to begin with.
I do have my doubts about a single Hathor 1203 carrying an outdoor gig. Yeah I know the Baer did fine, but you'll be giving up several dB efficiency relative to the Baer, so I'm cautiously pessimistic.
As for the 1203 with upright, my guess is that it's okay but not a stand-out. Useable until you get a real upright cab (Arnopol 45, Thunderchild 112AF, Euphonic Audio, etc.).
Again thank you both very much for being so conscientious and as thorough as one can be in a few hours, and hey thanks for saying nice things about my little cab!
The "compression" observation about the Hathor 1203 is a good call. It's literally true! The small air volume in that box results in higher internal pressures, which resists the cone motion - so yes it compresses, because of air compression! And unfortunately air is a non-linear spring, so the more you compress it, the more it resists. This is a disadvantage of a small box. So why did I go with? Well bigger cabs with the same or similar woofer were already being done, so in the interest of offering a bit more variety, I went for small-as-I-could, and there are tradeoffs along the way.
Glad to hear the "gank meter" didn't go into the red zone. I have to credit Mike Arnopol with raising my gank awareness. In the Hathor cabs I've deliberately tried to stay away from emphasizing certain parts of the spectrum, and gank (yes that's the scientific term) is one of them.
Also have to give credit to Jeff Hedback aka IronJaw. A couple of years ago he made some direct-feed recordings of his P-bass for me, and I rely heavily on those for "voicing" the Hathor cabs. They also helped me with the grindy/smoothy switch on the 8-ohm Thunderchild 112 and 115 cabs, though admittedly there's not a huge difference between those two settings because there's not much bumpage to work with in the grindy zone (more scientific terminology) to begin with.
I do have my doubts about a single Hathor 1203 carrying an outdoor gig. Yeah I know the Baer did fine, but you'll be giving up several dB efficiency relative to the Baer, so I'm cautiously pessimistic.
As for the 1203 with upright, my guess is that it's okay but not a stand-out. Useable until you get a real upright cab (Arnopol 45, Thunderchild 112AF, Euphonic Audio, etc.).
Again thank you both very much for being so conscientious and as thorough as one can be in a few hours, and hey thanks for saying nice things about my little cab!
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dunno. i think it depends what people are looking for. if size is an issue, you might get more people than you think. that plus the sound and volume level might really make it attractive to folks.
i wouldn't discount it out of hand.
guess you'll see.
Night one in the books. I think I should have turned up a bit more but my wife said she could hear me from the other side of the restaurant. Recorder is behind the band on the bar so certainly not optimal. At any rate, two reference tracks, first fretless, second fretted. Monique/Minnie into a single 1203.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (octave and env)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (octave and env)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Very cool. Thanks for sharing! Not quite as 'pretty sounding' as I recall the recordings of the TC112-4 being. More 'hair' on it. Sounds great to me and seems to handle the lows well. Sounds like I cab I could pretty easily get on with.
Nice playing too!
nostatic digs it a little hairier . . . and watch out, he'll make fun of you if you use words like "musical" . . . 
yeah, "musical" and me can be somewhat oxymoronic at times...
As steubig said, the TC112 was a bit too polite for me. The Baer is at a different end of the spectrum. I'll have a recording from out in house instead of behind tonight and I'm interested to hear how it works in the room. For the Sunday AM outdoor gig I'll do the ultimate A/B - take both the ML112 and the 1203 and swap between them. Then the challenge is to remember which is which when I cut the recordings
As steubig said, the TC112 was a bit too polite for me. The Baer is at a different end of the spectrum. I'll have a recording from out in house instead of behind tonight and I'm interested to hear how it works in the room. For the Sunday AM outdoor gig I'll do the ultimate A/B - take both the ML112 and the 1203 and swap between them. Then the challenge is to remember which is which when I cut the recordings
yeah, i've noticed that <smh>
i tend to play harder than you and with more mid boost, so the tc112 doesn't sound so polite in my hands, i'm
afraid (not many would call me a polite player, i think).
yeah, "musical" and me can be somewhat oxymoronic at times...
As steubig said, the TC112 was a bit too polite for me. The Baer is at a different end of the spectrum. I'll have a recording from out in house instead of behind tonight and I'm interested to hear how it works in the room. For the Sunday AM outdoor gig I'll do the ultimate A/B - take both the ML112 and the 1203 and swap between them. Then the challenge is to remember which is which when I cut the recordings
Silly idea, but maybe pluck a quick BA(er) for the ML112, a quick D(uke) for the Hathor each time you switch? There have been codes that made less sense, I'm sure.
night 2 in the books and some reference tracks. Zoom H4n out in the audience towards drum/bass side of setup:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (Rob Allen)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (YYD)
And for the adventurous:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (flute sitting in, new on-the-fly arrangement)
and just for fun, playing tag with the sax on the outro [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (Rob Allen)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (YYD)
And for the adventurous:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (flute sitting in, new on-the-fly arrangement)
and just for fun, playing tag with the sax on the outro [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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and 3/4 of the way through the weekend, the outdoor A/B challenge. H4n out about 12' in front of the stage on the keyboard side of the stage (keys/guitar/bass/drums stage L->R). YYD and frankenFodera fretless.
Baer:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
1203:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fretted)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fretted)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Some variability between volumes and the keys are a bit hot at times. My impression from the stage was that the 1203 had no problem carrying the gig alone. In fact, if anything I think the 1203 sounded better outdoors than the ML112, mostly due to the extra thickness in the low mids. With nothing to reflect off, the Baer can get a bit thin down low outdoors. The ML112 is a bit more efficient, and I can hear a bit more extension but given Duke's worries I had low expectations for a single 1203 in comparison. Happy to report that I really don't have a criticism of it outdoors. I probably would run a pair of 1203s outdoors if I was in a bit louder situation, but frankly it killed.
What it (1203) doesn't do is kill my back. I've had nasty spasms the past few days and have been up before 5am doing the ice pack thing. Crazy easy to haul/toss around. And now hopefully a short nap before tonights 7:30pm hit.
Baer:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
1203:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fretted)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (fretted)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Some variability between volumes and the keys are a bit hot at times. My impression from the stage was that the 1203 had no problem carrying the gig alone. In fact, if anything I think the 1203 sounded better outdoors than the ML112, mostly due to the extra thickness in the low mids. With nothing to reflect off, the Baer can get a bit thin down low outdoors. The ML112 is a bit more efficient, and I can hear a bit more extension but given Duke's worries I had low expectations for a single 1203 in comparison. Happy to report that I really don't have a criticism of it outdoors. I probably would run a pair of 1203s outdoors if I was in a bit louder situation, but frankly it killed.
What it (1203) doesn't do is kill my back. I've had nasty spasms the past few days and have been up before 5am doing the ice pack thing. Crazy easy to haul/toss around. And now hopefully a short nap before tonights 7:30pm hit.
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Fell in love with my 1st gen, 4 ohm TC112 AF all over again tonight.
I've been rethinking my signal chain lately, and doing some A/B testing between my G-K MB200 and MB800 and various pieces of outboard gear. After some experimentation, I ended monitoring the DI outputs of everything through a pair of small Focal nearfield monitors, along with a couple of different headphone amps into a pair of AKG Quincy Jones Q701 reference headphones.
Tonight I was trying different front ends with the MB800 power amp and the Thunderchild. Basses were my home-made neck-through 35" 5-string, Dingwall ABZ-5 and modded Squier VM P5.
Peak levels were between 106 and 108dB, measured a foot from from the cab. My top 3 configurations turned out to be:
I haven't had a chance to rack it up that loud in a while, and I had forgotten just how much of a low-mid punch the little guy can deliver.
As someone whose choices are limited by lower back trouble, I am extremely grateful to be able to carry that kind of kick in an affordable, 31lb box.
I've been rethinking my signal chain lately, and doing some A/B testing between my G-K MB200 and MB800 and various pieces of outboard gear. After some experimentation, I ended monitoring the DI outputs of everything through a pair of small Focal nearfield monitors, along with a couple of different headphone amps into a pair of AKG Quincy Jones Q701 reference headphones.
Tonight I was trying different front ends with the MB800 power amp and the Thunderchild. Basses were my home-made neck-through 35" 5-string, Dingwall ABZ-5 and modded Squier VM P5.
Peak levels were between 106 and 108dB, measured a foot from from the cab. My top 3 configurations turned out to be:
- Bass > MB800 front end.
- Bass > JDI > Focusrite ISA One Mic input > MB800 Return jack.
- Bass > ISA One DI input > MB800 Return jack.
I haven't had a chance to rack it up that loud in a while, and I had forgotten just how much of a low-mid punch the little guy can deliver.
As someone whose choices are limited by lower back trouble, I am extremely grateful to be able to carry that kind of kick in an affordable, 31lb box.
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After listening to different people's experiences, I think a Hathor 1203, Hathor 1855, & a ThunderChild 212 would be awesome additions to a sonic toolkit!
Different tools for use in different venues & bands.
Different tools for use in different venues & bands.
