Avatar 212 - Am I expecting too much?

[Sixgunn]

I have a Peavey TXV210 that I put Eminence Betas (250 watts RMS) in and wired it for 4 ohm. I use it for the top (but cut off at 60hz) of my bi-amp setup with an 18" cut at 300hz using a Crown XTi4000. In this configuration, it pushes about 2400 watts but I have it seriously limited lol. It performs great in this setup.

That said, as would be more applicable to you, I also use it as a stand alone cab for most indoor shows (bars, etc.) powered by an old school GK 800RB (300 watts full range). I play with a pretty hard hitting drummer and I have no problem being plenty loud. I have found that I hear myself better if I set it on it's side though.

 

[ashtray]

I'm interested in how it sounds now and if you've damaged your speakers or amp.

Also make sure you set the gain right between the preamp and power amp. There might be a setting on the power amp for input signal.

Lastly, consider removing some of the stuffing inside the cab. There's a science to it, and typically you just need a little to take out the boominess of the cab. Too much fill reduces your volume a bunch. (as well as reduces your volume.)

 

[Rickter]

Thanks to all of you for the advice. Changing the wiring on the drivers seems to have made a huge difference. The drivers still seem to be in good shape and not burned up, thank goodness. I haven't cranked it up to the same levels is was running at yesterday, but I've gotten close. I think that the limits of surface area provided by 2 12s played a significant role in my not being able to hear myself as well as the phase issue created by the faulty hook up. I think I'll be good to go for now, but will be looking around for another cab in case the cone surface area is what is at fault.

As for the filler material, I left it as I received it. That meaning a thin lining, roughly .25 inch thick, of insulation matting. This may or may not be how Avatar equips their cabs, but I suspect that stuffing some polyfill in the cab will help. That however is for another time.

 

[obimark]

2 12s will not keep up with that kind of volume war stupidity. Find a band that isn't deaf.

 

[Rickter]

2 12s will not keep up with that kind of volume war stupidity. Find a band that isn't deaf.

LOL. It's what the guitar player has and I can't expect him to get new gear to suit me. However, he is willing to back down on the volume. The drummer on the other hand is a young guy whom hasn't yet learned the finer points of dynamics, but he loves him some blast beats.

 

[B-string]

Thanks to all of you for the advice. Changing the wiring on the drivers seems to have made a huge difference. The drivers still seem to be in good shape and not burned up, thank goodness. I haven't cranked it up to the same levels is was running at yesterday, but I've gotten close. I think that the limits of surface area provided by 2 12s played a significant role in my not being able to hear myself as well as the phase issue created by the faulty hook up. I think I'll be good to go for now, but will be looking around for another cab in case the cone surface area is what is at fault.

As for the filler material, I left it as I received it. That meaning a thin lining, roughly .25 inch thick, of insulation matting. This may or may not be how Avatar equips their cabs, but I suspect that stuffing some polyfill in the cab will help. That however is for another time.

There is no "standard" amount of damping material, if the cab is not boomy or peaking in some frequencies more than others there is no need to add more. If you add too much to a ported (bass reflex) cab the cab becomes dead sounding/lifeless.

 

[DavC]

i would think the Maximizer might be adding some really low lows that aren't needed at louder volumes ... !?

i liked maximizers for lower volumes , ... like the 'loudness' button on older stereos .. !

are your 2x12s aimed at your knees ..?? versus your ears .. ? maybe another 2x12 or 2x10 verticle would help you hear yourself better .. then no need to bridge amp ..

 

[Ender_rpm]

When I had an Avatar 2x12, I found a similar problem- by the time I could keep up with the band, the cab was on the verge of farting out. Now, solo or with a more mid present sound, it was good for moderate volume stuff, but with a bass-heavy sound and in a rock band context, it just wasn't enough cabinet to keep up. I ended up shuffling that off in favor of the Neo 410, that was a beast of a cabinet. All the lows of a 410 HLF sans the mud at 1/2 the weight.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Another part of your problem now that you have the "out of phase" fixed is that if you didn't replace the speakers with the same speakers as the originals, your chances of getting the best out of the Avatar 212 cabinet are pretty small. Normally top quality cabinets are designed to work with particular speakers that the cabinet is built and tuned around. It's always a crap shoot when you replace speakers that don't meet the same design specs. Sometimes it works, but rarely.

 

[wraub]

Fwiw, I play in a 2 guitar band, heavy hitting drummer, and use an Avatar 1x12 that gets 400 watts.
We are loud, but I am heard. Passive bass, too.

If you aren't gonna hear your cab with the correct wiring and 900 watts, then you guys are possibly too loud.

 

[Rickter]

i would think the Maximizer might be adding some really low lows that aren't needed at louder volumes ... !?

i liked maximizers for lower volumes , ... like the 'loudness' button on older stereos .. !

are your 2x12s aimed at your knees ..?? versus your ears .. ? maybe another 2x12 or 2x10 verticle would help you hear yourself better .. then no need to bridge amp ..

No worries DavC, I dont even use the maximizer. Found it to be pretty useless.

Unfortunately yes, the cabinet is at ground level pointed straight most times. Have been contemplating a wedge piece for it to try to get better projection. Was also contemplating whether the sound wave was fully developing outside of the range that the band is standing within.

 

[Rickter]

Another part of your problem now that you have the "out of phase" fixed is that if you didn't replace the speakers with the same speakers as the originals, your chances of getting the best out of the Avatar 212 cabinet are pretty small. Normally top quality cabinets are designed to work with particular speakers that the cabinet is built and tuned around. It's always a crap shoot when you replace speakers that don't meet the same design specs. Sometimes it works, but rarely.

Hey Rip, when I replaced the speakers I ordered the replacement Eminence units from Dave at Avatar. I figure that's as close as I can get to getting the proper units for the cab.

 

[Rickter]

When I had an Avatar 2x12, I found a similar problem- by the time I could keep up with the band, the cab was on the verge of farting out. Now, solo or with a more mid present sound, it was good for moderate volume stuff, but with a bass-heavy sound and in a rock band context, it just wasn't enough cabinet to keep up. I ended up shuffling that off in favor of the Neo 410, that was a beast of a cabinet. All the lows of a 410 HLF sans the mud at 1/2 the weight.

Thanks for the info Ender_rpm. Was it an Avatar 410 Neo that you moved to or a GK or something else?

 

[Ender_rpm]

Thanks for the info Ender_rpm. Was it an Avatar 410 Neo that you moved to or a GK or something else?

Avatar. I shuffled that one off when I was taking a break while my kiddos were very young, ended up replacing it with an EBS Classic series neo 410, a very similar cab. It more or less came for "free" when I bought my amp, wasn't looking for a new cab, but its been great, and matches very well with the EBS amp AND my LM2.

 

[Rickter]

Avatar. I shuffled that one off when I was taking a break while my kiddos were very young, ended up replacing it with an EBS Classic series neo 410, a very similar cab. It more or less came for "free" when I bought my amp, wasn't looking for a new cab, but its been great, and matches very well with the EBS amp AND my LM2.

Very nice. Thanks for the info on their 410.

 

[slade]

2 12s will not keep up with that kind of volume war stupidity. Find a band that isn't deaf.

Rude remark really. I've got 2 Berg HD112s- they will not handle stage volume for a few of my gigs (reggae/funk/rock/r&b)
Deafness, volume wars, immaturity, unprofessionalism etc is not at all implied by louder stage volume. I play on the beach to a crowd of typically 700 twice a year- 2-12s don't cut the stage volume. Apparently YMMV
My feedback would be to have realistic expectations of your cabs!!

 

[Bigskybassguy]

OP, I don't know your age, but it sounds like you're dealing with some incredible dBs in your band.

Please. Get some earplugs, and use them. In the mean time, start considering some sort of in-ear monitoring rig. Please.

And be careful practicing with headphones that leave your ears ringing.

Don't wind up like me. I can no longer differentiate similar bass notes like F from F# and even E.
Plus, 24/7, my hearing sound to me like I'm in a wooded area filled with 10,000 cicadas around me. All because of band volume wars.
Don't be ignorant like me.

 

[obimark]

Rude remark really. I've got 2 Berg HD112s- they will not handle stage volume for a few of my gigs (reggae/funk/rock/r&b)
Deafness, volume wars, immaturity, unprofessionalism etc is not at all implied by louder stage volume. I play on the beach to a crowd of typically 700 twice a year- 2-12s don't cut the stage volume. Apparently YMMV
My feedback would be to have realistic expectations of your cabs!!

Op stated they were practicing that loud.

 

[bolophonic]

I have played in some pretty heavy bands with a 700RB-II through an Avatar 2x12" with no problems being heard.

 

[Brother Goose]

I used to run an Avatar 212 with a Mackie 1400i and it slayed dragons. Good luck getting her configured right!