Avatar 3 way 15/6/tweet

[Vakmere]

Weight 63 lbs Dimensions 27H x 24.5W x 16.5D. Speaker cabs are not sold on a trial basis and are not returnable.

Which means you buy one and sooner or later you'll see it posted on the 'amps for sale' thread for $150 less than the sale price. If Avatar goes through all this to market a new line the least they can do is hire a bass player to let us hear what it sounds like with more than just a Fender bass. Nice concept along the lines of an SWR Triad. I wont buy it to try it, I'll have to hear it first.

 

[greenboy]

The Triad was a horrible execution of ... whatever it was they were trying to execute. In fact, someone should have been executed.

In fact, the last Avatar 15" cab thread was generally effective at steering Avatar AWAY from a Triad-like design.

 

[Vakmere]

The Triad was a horrible execution of ... whatever it was they were trying to execute. In fact, someone should have been executed.

In fact, the last Avatar 15" cab thread was generally effective at steering Avatar AWAY from a Triad-like design.

Not saying the Triad was a success however a picture of the cabinet is like looking at a picture of a car. I want to hear somebody playing thru it. If it's all that I'll buy one.

 

[greenboy]

I myself get very little out of "hearing someone play a cab" (unless it's me).* And I place even less trust in youtube and audio clips of someone playing a cab. I'm not into high priests of clips, nor of flowery prose describing cab sounds - which after all have a lot do do with the player, the input signal to the cab, and the environment it's in. So it comes down to trying - or buying, for me.

That said, in this particular instance especially I have a pretty good idea of what is likely and how flexible the cab's tonal footprint could be.



*likewise, I don't get much out of watching moving pictures of a car being driven, nor by just hearing how it sounds - not compared to actually driving it myself in a variety of conditions

 

[Queg]

Not saying the Triad was a success however a picture of the cabinet is like looking at a picture of a car. I want to hear somebody playing thru it. If it's all that I'll buy one.

Not that I disagree with wanting to hear it, but, folks on this thread aren't merely responding to a photo. Keeping with your analogy, surely knowing the specific model engine + weight + chassis design of a car must provide a good clue to potential performance on a straightaway?

 

[rpsands]

If these wind up going for 250 on the used market, someone would be wiser to part out the components than sell the cab. A used 3015LF will fetch 100 bucks at least, and the CBMR is a hard to find driver too.

 

[Vakmere]

Not that I disagree with wanting to hear it, but, folks on this thread aren't merely responding to a photo. Keeping with your analogy, surely knowing the specific model engine + weight + chassis design of a car must provide a good clue to potential performance on a straightaway?

True, but how's the ride? Smooth, hard, stiff, etc? I think time will tell and some reviews will be made by somebody here. If you all chip a few bucks in I'll get one, test drive it, and give my comments.

 

[jeff7bass]

Not to get too far off topic, but I bet that's one of the main reasons Carvin's Sacramento store is closing. I love my Carvin amp and I wouldn't mind a nice custom bass from them, but I swear I've never dealt with worse customer service in any industry. And yes, I did actually call them on the phone lol!

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that Dave and Avatar have not only listened to us here on TB but have actually done something as a result has earned my business. If some other deals that are in the works fall through, I will definitely buy one of the new Avatar cabs based solely on what I've read on TB (I've never heard an Avatar in person). It's gotta sound better than the Carvin BR515N combo I've got now!

Not sure what you mean about Carvin’s Customer Service. I’ve had two experiences with them and in both cases they were great. The last time they went above and beyond what they had to do because I made the mistake of trying to fix something myself and screwed it up worse. They still covered everything under warranty. Kudos.
Now what you are discussing is a change in the way they do business, not Customer Service. Carvin, like other businesses, likely has marketing analysts who figure out what’s going to sell and what isn’t and compares it to manufacturing costs to add/subtract certain products. It’s probably how they are able to deliver (on products they do build) very good performance for very little coin (as compared to others, not all others).
Now Dave at Avatar is taking a chance with this cab but after seeing the buzz I feel it’s a good bet. I love the thought of an affordable, 15” 3-way cab as a standalone cab. Today’s players want a broad sound spectrum along with portability and this cab seems to fit the bill. Avatar doesn’t pump out a huge amount of products like Carvin though so he’s probably more flexible, and able to control the costs of building a cab like this as compared to Carvin (IMO). If Carvin were to expand their product lines to please everybody, the costs of everything likely would go up.
Hyundai by the way uses this model (of limiting models/features) to pack as much as they can into their cars while keeping the price down. It attracts more customers than it deters.
Bottom line is if you want an affordable 15”, 3-way cab then give Avatar a call !!

 

[lomo]

It ain't whining if you actually know what you are talking about ; } - Some of us who have actually said it's a good deal right now are also people who have given critique, and educative perspective.

That's part of what TalkBass is supposed to be all about, right?

Yes, that's what TB should be all about IMO. It's never what's said, but how it's said. Not directing this at anyone in particular, but If a post is phrased as a suggestion for an improvement and tempered with an acknowledgment that there may be business constraints making such an improvement difficult and/or less profitable, it comes across very different from a post implying that Avatar missed the mark and fell off the wire and /or is incompetent, etc etc.

 

[LaklandMike]

Not sure what you mean about Carvin’s Customer Service.

I mean I've had horrible customer service from Carvin, that's all. In the Sac store, and on the phone with San Diego.

I know I'm not the only one, too.

So now, I will spend my hard-earned money with Avatar, because it means a lot to me that a company would shift their production plans around completely, based mainly on what its customers have suggested. To me, that is the pinnacle of customer service. At the Carvin Sacramento store, it was hard enough to get someone to acknowledge that you walked into their store, let alone provide info on the items they were selling. Just my experience.

 

[greenboy]

Yes, that's what TB should be all about IMO. It's never what's said, but how it's said. Not directing this at anyone in particular, but If a post is phrased as a suggestion for an improvement and tempered with an acknowledgment that there may be business constraints making such an improvement difficult and/or less profitable, it comes across very different from a post implying that Avatar missed the mark and fell off the wire and /or is incompetent, etc etc.

Frankly if I want the added weight of training wheels and soft padded things to protect one from trauma, this is more what I have in mind:

Link Removed

 

[greenboy]

So now, I will spend my hard-earned money with Avatar, because it means a lot to me that a company would shift their production plans around completely, based mainly on what its customers have suggested.

Kind of a different business model - Carvin has a HUGE product line. I'm not defending some of the corporate culture problems they have (I've actually had good service from them myself and a lot of bands I've been in got PA that way), but this does not have much to do with that.

 

[LaklandMike]

Kind of a different business model - Carvin has a HUGE product line. I'm not defending some of the corporate culture problems they have (I've actually had good service from them myself and a lot of bands I've been in got PA that way), but this does not have much to do with that.

I see your point. And this IS off topic now, but it just makes me angry that after basically decades of researching, following the evolution of their product line, and dreaming about owning Carvin gear when I was a kid--for many reasons, including the customer service that I had grown up hearing about from my musician family and friends--I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. From being mad-dogged when I walked into their Sac store, to dealing with employees who didn't know their products, to the snotty punk who I talked with on the phone in San Diego, it's all been plain old BAD.

As I've said several times, though, those are just my experiences. And fwiw, I'm a nice guy who gets along with everyone. It's not like I was a jerk when I walked into that store! There were just weird vibes in there, man!

I won't bring up Carvin anymore, I promise!

 

[craig.p]

So now, I will spend my hard-earned money with Avatar, because it means a lot to me that a company would shift their production plans around completely, based mainly on what its customers have suggested.

Bingo, Mike. That's 33% of why I've got my eye on one. (A tip of the hat to the company.) Another 33% is that I know the TB may not be perfect but I also know it's at least highly capable if the Eminence guys were brought in on the design. Another 33% is due to my positive experiences with my B212s over the past couple of months. The last 1% is just plain ol' curiosity, 'cause I've always wondered how loud and authoritative a single fifteen could get and still maintain its dynamics when mounted in a reflex cab.

 

[jeff7bass]

If I needed a cab I would jump on the Avatar right now. I'm confident that it will sound good and also be built well. I appreciate the fact that there are guys out there who demand boutique performance and are willing to pay boutique prices, but I'm not one of them. I'm more of a good-yet-affordable guy. Avatar nails it, so does Carvin. Peavey does too. Yamaha, Ibanez, also good examples. It's a very competetive market.

 

[Vakmere]

I'm still not sure what purpose a 6" speaker will have on the overall sound. Jury still out on this cab?

 

[greenboy]

6 + 15 > 15. It will make it 6 more. Nigel Tufnel understands. What else is there to say?

 

[KJung]

I'm still not sure what purpose a 6" speaker will have on the overall sound. Jury still out on this cab?

The whole point of these types of designs (cabs with mid drivers like the original EA VL, the Acme Low B line of cabs, the Accugroove cabs, some of the LDS executions, Barefaced, etc., etc.) is that the mid driver reproducing the upper mids (800hz, 1K and above.. whatever) allows you to use a much deeper voiced primary driver (there is no free lunch... a driver manufactured to be very forceful down low typically will not sound that great up high). So, as Andy from Acme pointed out years ago in his nice little White Paper on his site, the mid driver is the reason his cabs (and these other executions) can be tuned to go quite a bit lower (or at least have mechanical designs that allow for more even deeper bass response) than the typical one way 'mid driver' bass cab.

There is some minor (IMO) upper midrange dispersion advantage also (kind of more of an 'icing on the cake thing' with bass guitar backline... more of an issue with PA's, etc.).

These executions result in a different midrange tonality too... very smooth and even, which may or may not be a positive, given an individual's tonal preference.

The current batch of these cabs (like Greenboy's fEarful designs) have a great advantage to the older versions by Acme, EA, etc., due to the MUCH more powerful mid drivers (these 6.5" versions) that can actually keep up with the powerful drivers (for many, the old VL and Acme cabs kind of lost their midrange punch and clarity when pushed with those litte 5" mid drivers).

Genz Benz has a similar execution using dual 8" mid drivers that was just released.

 

[craig.p]

I'm still not sure what purpose a 6" speaker will have on the overall sound.

The 3015LF dies at or before 1500 Hz -- well below Tweeterland. Whether or not a suckout from 1500-4500 Hz would hurt your sound would depend on... your sound. With my B212s it doesn't hurt me because I don't run up that high with the music I play. For a slap player, that midrange is a must, which he may not even realize if he's never heard a cab with a midrange driver.

 

[greenboy]

These executions result in a different midrange tonality too... very smooth and even

That depends entirely on crossover/attenuation design, and driver choice, and so on. Just as woofers sound different, this stuff sounds different depending on those choices and omissions or commissions in design. It's as wide open as the skies, arguably moreso than one-way cabs - even if one were actually capable of designing one's own woofers.

And it's also capable of being implemented to be tonally FLEXIBLE moreso than a one-way, because done right, EQ at any frequency center can be more revealed, even when moved subtly, and a larger bandwidth can be represented over a wider area.

We really don't have any idea how the Avatar sounds in the midrange, though some of us can guess with pretty good odds on a lot of things like this, based on the mid driver choice and the general economics of good crossover design.