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Avatar SB112 with MID !!!!!! The SB126
- Thread starter topcat2069
- Start date
anymore people using these? im thinking about getting one since i can't afford a fearful. either this model or the 15 3way.
I'm on the fence on these - tempted by the new Genzler Array 12-3's. If I got a pair of these Avatars, I'd get a pair of 8 ohm cabs. I'm waiting for more gig reviews on these - the price is right, but if they're NG, I won't waste the money.
I was in a similar place... with the Barefaced Big Baby as an additional possibility. I was moving from an Acme B2 which was a bit too pillowy for me. I wanted a stronger midrange and a tighter bottom for my fretless bass. I also wanted what I perceived to be the higher quality of the more boutique cabs over the avatars but was worried whether a single 12 would move enough air. At the boutique prices, I could only justify buying one at this point. I play in a lower volume church band, with a couple of singer/songwriters, and a medium volume pop band. I didn't have an opportunity to try any of them in advance.
I ended up going with a single BA12-3. I'm really pleased with it. The dispersion is everything it is advertised to be. The lows are tight, the mids vocal, and the highs smooth. A single cab has been enough for my uses thus far. I can imagine that a second one would only give me more of everything but I've gotten away with one without stressing it at all (with a Genz Benz shuttle 9.0 head).
So... I still haven't played the other cabs that were on my short list but, again, I've been really pleased with the BA12-3.
Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide.
I tried out a pair of BA12-3's over at Bass Strings Online in Chatsworth not too long ago - played thru a pair and the Magellan head ( I actually bought a Magellan there that day ) and the rig IS frigging amazing, but just can't part with the bread right now. Actually, I do have a Greenboy F112 and as we all know, they are around $1100, so what am I complaining about - right? A 12-3 is a bit less. But, the deal is, I know I need a pair - you can't expect a single 12 to do all gigs. I do small clubs to large hotel banquet rooms usually with no PA support for my bass. The F112 is impressive, but still playing with it - haven't put in enough time with it. I could sell a pile of other cabs I have to help pay for a pair of 12-3's and my hope is that a pair of 12-3's will cure my cab GAS for a while - maybe for good. I played thru the Genzler 212 too - very nice, but too heavy for my lower back issues - and I really prefer the typical 112-sized cab.
really been thinking of one of these with the sb210, anyone try this yet? I'm using an Eden wt-800
no input on whether this would pair up with the sb210? I've also thought about two of the sb126 cabs or two of the sb210 cabs.
Based on other threads about mixing cabs, my thought is a pair of SB126 cabs are the way to go. I have not found enough info / feedback on these cabs to buy a pair, but the price is reasonable and worth the risk IMO. I was getting close to buying a pair of the SB126 cabs, but already had a single Greenboy F112 - and recently decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on a second one. With a pair of F112's, I should be set for life! But if I don't like them, they hold their value very well and I can just sell the pair. I don't think that will happen though - I'll probably end up selling all my other cabs! The SB126 looks like a good lower cost alternative to a Greenboy cab, but then again, who knows until you sit down with both and A/B them.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I came across two used SB112's locally. I converted one into a three way with an Eminence sealed 6" mid crossed over at 2khz @ 12db/octave. The tweet is crossed over higher, around 5khz.(18db slope) A lower crossover point for the 6" might not be a bad idea say around 800z but I didn't have those parts laying around and I like the result enough to leave it. I run the 12LF full range. (It's a dead puppy above 1khz anyway.) I hand wired the 5khz crossover and it takes over where the mid trails off. This actually sounds great without the tweet at all... albeit more of a old school vibe. My conclusion, the 6" mid really opens up this cabinet. The stock SB112 has more of that old school SWR scooped slap tone comparatively.
Do I recommend the SB126? Absolutely. Without it, for my purposes it's too dark. A pair of SB126's would probably perform admirably for most applications. It's definitely the budget poor mans fearful 12/6/1 but that Delta12LF still pounds pretty hard in that cabinet. I'm not a super tech speaker-wiz-bang guy so can't comment on why the Delta12LF is vastly inferior to the Kappalite 3012LF although that driver does not sound near as good in the Avatar cabinet as it does in a proper Fearful 12/6/1. (I tried swapping the 3012LF for the 12LF, it was noticeably deeper but no where as stellar in that cabinet compared to the Greenboy design)
Do I recommend the SB126? Absolutely. Without it, for my purposes it's too dark. A pair of SB126's would probably perform admirably for most applications. It's definitely the budget poor mans fearful 12/6/1 but that Delta12LF still pounds pretty hard in that cabinet. I'm not a super tech speaker-wiz-bang guy so can't comment on why the Delta12LF is vastly inferior to the Kappalite 3012LF although that driver does not sound near as good in the Avatar cabinet as it does in a proper Fearful 12/6/1. (I tried swapping the 3012LF for the 12LF, it was noticeably deeper but no where as stellar in that cabinet compared to the Greenboy design)
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I've had a 126 with the 2.5k xover for about a year, and wanted another. I found a used 112 and decided to convert it. Got the 6" from Dave, and he told me that for the 1.6K xovers he just uses the Eminence ones. So I got a couple of them, then started to experiment, as I used to design and build xovers for smaller passive PA cabinets years ago.
I verified that there is a pretty severe spike coming off the VC of the Delta 12LF using my Smaart FFT analyzer setup, but found that in mine it was actually at more like 2.5k than 2k like Eminence's graphs show. I also saw that the crossover wasn't doing anything to improve that, as the impedance of the 12LF at the crossover point is close to 20Ω without a zobel to stabilize the load impedance of the driver...
This is Eminence's graph of the 12LF, note the peak at 2k:
So to get to the point, I ended up fixing the speaker load on the crossover with a zobel, and changing the crossover points to about 1KHz. That really smoothed out the mids, and made them much clearer as well. I also got rid of the wimpy low end coil that's wound out of 18GA wire and replaced it with a Jantzen powdered iron cored coil made with 13Ga wire.
It's wrapped in foam in the pics...
After changing to a heavy duty L-pad and doing inductance compensation on the 6" too (under the L-pad in the pic below), it was really getting to sound more HiFi, but now the cabinet vibration resonances were really becoming apparent, making the low G and A kind of boomy, but the low E a little dead. So I made a couple of braces, one from the front baffle board to the back, and one to tie the sides together. I made them out of 1x1.5" Poplar to keep from taking up too much cabinet volume. They seem to really smooth out the bottom, and keep the baffle board, back, and sides much more solid and stable with less resonant vibration.
Here are some pics:
This is the crossover as delivered:
This is with the Zobel on the circuit board, extra caps to lower crossover frequencies, and
the large Jantzen coil mounted separately as it's too heavy to mount to the circuit board.
The Dayton Audio 100W L-Pad with impedance compensation parts for the 6 under it.
The jack plate with the Switchcraft phone jack covers to stop them from leaking air.
I'm very pleased with the sound of these now. It was well worth the effort IMO.
I verified that there is a pretty severe spike coming off the VC of the Delta 12LF using my Smaart FFT analyzer setup, but found that in mine it was actually at more like 2.5k than 2k like Eminence's graphs show. I also saw that the crossover wasn't doing anything to improve that, as the impedance of the 12LF at the crossover point is close to 20Ω without a zobel to stabilize the load impedance of the driver...
This is Eminence's graph of the 12LF, note the peak at 2k:
So to get to the point, I ended up fixing the speaker load on the crossover with a zobel, and changing the crossover points to about 1KHz. That really smoothed out the mids, and made them much clearer as well. I also got rid of the wimpy low end coil that's wound out of 18GA wire and replaced it with a Jantzen powdered iron cored coil made with 13Ga wire.
After changing to a heavy duty L-pad and doing inductance compensation on the 6" too (under the L-pad in the pic below), it was really getting to sound more HiFi, but now the cabinet vibration resonances were really becoming apparent, making the low G and A kind of boomy, but the low E a little dead. So I made a couple of braces, one from the front baffle board to the back, and one to tie the sides together. I made them out of 1x1.5" Poplar to keep from taking up too much cabinet volume. They seem to really smooth out the bottom, and keep the baffle board, back, and sides much more solid and stable with less resonant vibration.
Here are some pics:
This is the crossover as delivered:
This is with the Zobel on the circuit board, extra caps to lower crossover frequencies, and
the large Jantzen coil mounted separately as it's too heavy to mount to the circuit board.
The Dayton Audio 100W L-Pad with impedance compensation parts for the 6 under it.
The jack plate with the Switchcraft phone jack covers to stop them from leaking air.
I'm very pleased with the sound of these now. It was well worth the effort IMO.
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Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Nicely done. I concur about those 1.6khz crossover's robbing low end I couldn't figure out why until just now. I used a slightly different 6's sealed mid and crossover around 2kHz based on parts on hand but your solution looks well thought out. If memory serves I think I invested close to $750 for a standard Fearful (cabinet built by someone for $250) for under $400 these cabinets are a viable alternative. Recently pulled the carpet and did a Duratex job on these for one of my clients.
Thanks!
I got the used SB112 for $200 (came with Line-X), but then spent enough money on it to have bought a new 126 anyway... but I did wind up with a much cleaner sound IMO.
I got my original 126 with Tolex covering, but it came with black carpet on the baffle board.
One other thing I did was to seal up all the handles and jack plates with gasket material. There wasn't any before. The Linex cabinet particularly had to be leaking air around all of the texture.
Here's the rig without the grills on yet. I mounted the 6 on the other side (used a 5" hole saw and needed just a little chamfering on the hole) to make a mirror image pair, allowing the 6's to be closer together in the stack, instead of removing the horn.
The horn isn't hooked up, that's another project down the road, along with adding a horn to the other cabinet, and possibly tri-amping the cabinets. It will probably work from about 4k and up.
I also have some Rythmik Audio Servo Subs that I built that may eventually repackage and incorporate under the 126s for getting under 41 Hz with the 5 string. They work quite well in small cabinets, flat to 20Hz or below, perfect for 5 string and/or synthesized sub bass sounds.
I got the used SB112 for $200 (came with Line-X), but then spent enough money on it to have bought a new 126 anyway... but I did wind up with a much cleaner sound IMO.
I got my original 126 with Tolex covering, but it came with black carpet on the baffle board.
One other thing I did was to seal up all the handles and jack plates with gasket material. There wasn't any before. The Linex cabinet particularly had to be leaking air around all of the texture.
Here's the rig without the grills on yet. I mounted the 6 on the other side (used a 5" hole saw and needed just a little chamfering on the hole) to make a mirror image pair, allowing the 6's to be closer together in the stack, instead of removing the horn.
The horn isn't hooked up, that's another project down the road, along with adding a horn to the other cabinet, and possibly tri-amping the cabinets. It will probably work from about 4k and up.
I also have some Rythmik Audio Servo Subs that I built that may eventually repackage and incorporate under the 126s for getting under 41 Hz with the 5 string. They work quite well in small cabinets, flat to 20Hz or below, perfect for 5 string and/or synthesized sub bass sounds.
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I've done a few years of rehearsals and small gigs with a single SB112 and a Behringer BX4500H head, which is about 275w at 8 ohms. Sounds great. Keeps up with the un-miked loud drummer, guitar and vocals. My tone is not real fat, I like the lower-mid sound. It's a real good cab but I noticed the prices have gone up.
Sorry for the thread Necromancy.
I'm getting back into playing bass for a band and am on the market for two cabs to pair up with my SVT Classic (300 watts...may be a little less as I using KT88s in lieu of the 6550s).
I'm thinking two of the SB126s with the Deltalite IIs 2512s in 8ohms for a 4ohm total load. That way I can add additional cabs if I determine a need. Thinking the Deltalites are more closely spec'd to the SVTs output for optimal efficiency.
I wanted to get user's impressions on these cabs now that they've been available for several years. I play heavy music with lot's of Fuzz and Distortion in drop A.
Cheers
I'm getting back into playing bass for a band and am on the market for two cabs to pair up with my SVT Classic (300 watts...may be a little less as I using KT88s in lieu of the 6550s).
I'm thinking two of the SB126s with the Deltalite IIs 2512s in 8ohms for a 4ohm total load. That way I can add additional cabs if I determine a need. Thinking the Deltalites are more closely spec'd to the SVTs output for optimal efficiency.
I wanted to get user's impressions on these cabs now that they've been available for several years. I play heavy music with lot's of Fuzz and Distortion in drop A.
Cheers
What Necromancy? lol
If I were you , I'd go with the Kappalite 3012LFs or the original Delta 12LFAs. They'll have lower bottom and won't slam the pole pieces as easily, which is not a pleasant effect, and can lead to speaker failure. After trying one I wouldn't recommend the Deltalite for any more than 100w 4 string fretless or a bull bass (standup) playing jazz. Nothing with high power detuned to an A.
I'm just about to biamp my 126s and put JBL 2406Hs in them and remove my Delta 12LFAs. I bought an ART SLA-4 - 4 channel 1ru amp that I'll run in bridged mono for 280 w/ ch into 8 ohms for the 6s and horns. I have 650 /side at 8 ohms for the 12s. I'm also adding some subwoofers for the bottom octave. Should really rock out the synth bass from the Future Impact, H9s, and the Helix.
I play a Variax 705 5 string almost exclusively.
Probably start on that today or this weekend. I'll likely be looking to sell the crossovers I built. They also allow a slight improvement in the low end with the 13Ga coils.
If I were you , I'd go with the Kappalite 3012LFs or the original Delta 12LFAs. They'll have lower bottom and won't slam the pole pieces as easily, which is not a pleasant effect, and can lead to speaker failure. After trying one I wouldn't recommend the Deltalite for any more than 100w 4 string fretless or a bull bass (standup) playing jazz. Nothing with high power detuned to an A.
I'm just about to biamp my 126s and put JBL 2406Hs in them and remove my Delta 12LFAs. I bought an ART SLA-4 - 4 channel 1ru amp that I'll run in bridged mono for 280 w/ ch into 8 ohms for the 6s and horns. I have 650 /side at 8 ohms for the 12s. I'm also adding some subwoofers for the bottom octave. Should really rock out the synth bass from the Future Impact, H9s, and the Helix.
I play a Variax 705 5 string almost exclusively.
Probably start on that today or this weekend. I'll likely be looking to sell the crossovers I built. They also allow a slight improvement in the low end with the 13Ga coils.
