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Baer Amplification Megathread!

#5,301
Time for some overdue pornography.
So I submit this.
Thankfully my neighbour's are cool.
20150623_115003.jpg
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#5,305
R Baer said:
So, you mic with both mics more towards the mid driver? Interesting. I would think one on the woofer and one on the mid to blend. Will have to try that one

Sorry about the VTI delays. We went back to the drawing board a little bit to change some features and also the behavior of the tube drive section. Hopefully everyone will like the direction we went with it.
Click to expand...

So I'm sure there's a reason you don't say what features were changed, but I'll ask just in case. What kinds of features have you changed, and what kind of difference to the behavior of the tube section have you guys been working on?
 
#5,306
jrick7 said:
So I'm sure there's a reason you don't say what features were changed, but I'll ask just in case. What kinds of features have you changed, and what kind of difference to the behavior of the tube section have you guys been working on?
Click to expand...

On the prototype we showed at NAMM, the Character section was activated by a switch which engaged the low end enhance circuit and made the hi pass/ low pass knob active. While this worked great for bass, a number of engineers said they would prefer to have these features act independently. They felt this would make the unit more versatile recording something like a large body acoustic, where they wouldn't want a low end boost, but would find the hi pass/low pass to be very useful. Made sense to me, so we are adopting that change.

I also felt the input needed a pad to reduce the input level to the drive section, as some very hot, active basses were pushing that section in to distortion a bit too early on the knobs rotation.

As far as the tube section goes, I wasn't entirely happy with the way the section would transition form clean tube to distortion. As is typical with a lot of clean tube designs, pushing the levels means at some point you hit a wall where the tube breaks up and notes higher up on the neck with less energy cause the tube to fall back into clean, while high output lower notes push you into distortion, resulting in inconsistent tone. This is a very tricky thing to design around, as a bass guitar has such a huge dynamic range and tube distortion is very dependent upon input levels throughout the tube circuit. My goal for the drive section was to be able to get a bit of that rich, creamy distotion the guitarist are able to get due to the limited frequency response of their instrument.

Pulling this off involved a complete redesign of the tube section. Now, as you turn up the drive control, you start to introduce a nice, smooth distortion that increases in intensity without ever feeling like you are crossing that threshold between clean and dirty. I'm really happy with the result so far. The distortion is staying very consistant through the neck and not blowing out by hard hits to the B string.
 
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#5,308
In my triple stack pictured above, I have an early production series I, a later series I and a series II. I can attest to them working together just fine like good siblings. The differences are slight separately and negligible in a stack.
I have A/B'd them extensively with my WT800 as it has 2 separate power amps and a balance knob. It makes more of a difference whether a cab is on the bottom of the stack than which cab series is being played. They're all good. If I only use one, it's the series II as (according to a reliable source) it can handle slightly more bottom end power. Adding a second is just more of a good thing. Adding the third is .....well..... just WOW.
I can run one or up to all three from the WT800C or one or two from the Streamliner 600 or YBA1-A. Or I can combine with an AB/Y box. I'm always ecstatic with these cabs. They're perfect for my tastes. I have no cab GAS right now for the first time in forever.

Quackhead said:
Does anyone have thoughts on how a Series I ML112 and Series II ML112 would work together? I know the specs are a little different.

I'm asking because I'm looking at picking up a Series I and will probably want to add a second at some point in the future. Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
#5,309
Finances prevent me from grabbing two right now otherwise I'd order one from Baer.

Lowendtech said:
In my triple stack pictured above, I have an early production series I, a later series I and a series II. I can attest to them working together just fine like good siblings. The differences are slight separately and negligible in a stack.
I have A/B'd them extensively with my WT800 as it has 2 separate power amps and a balance knob. It makes more of a difference whether a cab is on the bottom of the stack than which cab series is being played. They're all good. If I only use one, it's the series II as (according to a reliable source) it can handle slightly more bottom end power. Adding a second is just more of a good thing. Adding the third is .....well..... just WOW.
I can run one or up to all three from the WT800C or one or two from the Streamliner 600 or YBA1-A. Or I can combine with an AB/Y box. I'm always ecstatic with these cabs. They're perfect for my tastes. I have no cab GAS right now for the first time in forever.
Click to expand...
 
#5,310
The original series ML-112's are pretty damn awesome. I'm not gigging anymore, for now, but I'm glad I purchased these!

I'm not one to typically do the selfie video thing. But I did today just to see/hear my practice today. My friend records various songs for me and he pretty much plays all guitar parts, sings and I add the bass. I don't need the Sadowsky NYC PJ5 for this song but since I hadn't picked it up in awhile, I thought I'd give it some love today.
Sadowsky NYC PJ5 Alder/Braz
Mesa Prodigy into 2 ML-112's (original series)
I thought I'd share:
 
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#5,313
Quackhead said:
The ML112 took the place of a 410?
Click to expand...

Not quite. But close. A single one is a very good stand alone cab. The 410 was a very good one so it's a bit of an unfair comparison. But after I got the second ML112, the writing was on the wall for it. The tone of the first ML made me realize that there was a better way to get the sound I was after. Once I figured it out the 410 was gone.
 
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#5,314
R Baer said:
On the prototype we showed at NAMM, the Character section was activated by a switch which engaged the low end enhance circuit and made the hi pass/ low pass knob active. While this worked great for bass, a number of engineers said they would prefer to have these features act independently. They felt this would make the unit more versatile recording something like a large body acoustic, where they wouldn't want a low end boost, but would find the hi pass/low pass to be very useful. Made sense to me, so we are adopting that change.

I also felt the input needed a pad to reduce the input level to the drive section, as some very hot, active basses were pushing that section in to distortion a bit too early on the knobs rotation.

As far as the tube section goes, I wasn't entirely happy with the way the section would transition form clean tube to distortion. As is typical with a lot of clean tube designs, pushing the levels means at some point you hit a wall where the tube breaks up and notes higher up on the neck with less energy cause the tube to fall back into clean, while high output lower notes push you into distortion, resulting in inconsistent tone. This is a very tricky thing to design around, as a bass guitar has such a huge dynamic range and tube distortion is very dependent upon input levels throughout the tube circuit. My goal for the drive section was to be able to get a bit of that rich, creamy distotion the guitarist are able to get due to the limited frequency response of their instrument.

Pulling this off involved a complete redesign of the tube section. Now, as you turn up the drive control, you start to introduce a nice, smooth distortion that increases in intensity without ever feeling like you are crossing that threshold between clean and dirty. I'm really happy with the result so far. The distortion is staying very consistant through the neck and not blowing out by hard hits to the B string.
Click to expand...

Those sound like some really worthwhile and interesting changes. I'm very excited about this preamp as where I play I pretty much only ever use a preamp into the board. Will the preamp be capable of driving a power amp?

One more question as well, just as an aside from this topic I guess. I remember reading somewhere in either this thread or the Valkyrie thread that you had ideas about either another amp, or a redesign of the Valkyrie. I also remember seeing you mention something about how the development of the VTI has shaped some ideas about new possible amps. I know you've got a ton of engineering going on with reworking the VTI, and making the version of the ML212, but just curious if you've pegged down any more amp ideas in particular?
 
#5,315
jrick7 said:
Those sound like some really worthwhile and interesting changes. I'm very excited about this preamp as where I play I pretty much only ever use a preamp into the board. Will the preamp be capable of driving a power amp?

One more question as well, just as an aside from this topic I guess. I remember reading somewhere in either this thread or the Valkyrie thread that you had ideas about either another amp, or a redesign of the Valkyrie. I also remember seeing you mention something about how the development of the VTI has shaped some ideas about new possible amps. I know you've got a ton of engineering going on with reworking the VTI, and making the version of the ML212, but just curious if you've pegged down any more amp ideas in particular?
Click to expand...

The VTI will drive a preamp no problem, though I hesitate to call it a preamp. It's really designed to be a DI, as it lacks the type of tone controls typically found in a preamp. If you want strictly the sound of your bass and can make do with it's onboard tone controls, then the VTI may work out quite well as a preamp.

As far as the next amp goes, I would love to incorporate elements of the VTI preamp and turn that into a new amp, as I think the drive section would just kill in a bass amp. As it is designed now however, the VTI's preamp is far too expensive to put into a bass amp. The trick becomes getting the sound we are getting now from a stripped down version. The plan is to try a class D for this amp.

Right now, I'm trying to only focus on getting the VTI to market before getting too much into the new amp. The industrial design has been done for some time, as I tend to start most products by designing what I think is a cool looking product and going from there. Hopefully we will be starting on that in a few months. Once the new amp is out, the plan it to go back in and redesign the Valkyrie to be a more cost effective product.
 
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#5,317
R Baer said:
The VTI will drive a preamp no problem, though I hesitate to call it a preamp. It's really designed to be a DI, as it lacks the type of tone controls typically found in a preamp. If you want strictly the sound of your bass and can make do with it's onboard tone controls, then the VTI may work out quite well as a preamp.

As far as the next amp goes, I would love to incorporate elements of the VTI preamp and turn that into a new amp, as I think the drive section would just kill in a bass amp. As it is designed now however, the VTI's preamp is far too expensive to put into a bass amp. The trick becomes getting the sound we are getting now from a stripped down version. The plan is to try a class D for this amp.

Right now, I'm trying to only focus on getting the VTI to market before getting too much into the new amp. The industrial design has been done for some time, as I tend to start most products by designing what I think is a cool looking product and going from there. Hopefully we will be starting on that in a few months. Once the new amp is out, the plan it to go back in and redesign the Valkyrie to be a more cost effective product.
Click to expand...

Awesome info! Really appreciate you taking time to post in these on talkbass, and I'm really looking forward to that VTI!!
 

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