• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Baer Amplification Megathread!

#5,361
I picked up a pair of ML112's, which I received last week. I was finally able to spend a couple of hours with the pair this weekend (what can I say... I've been busy). I am VERY happy with the pair together, but running just one by itself, not so much.

I took one to band rehearsal (bass, drums, keys in medium volume basement) on Wednesday, running with TH500 (basically flat unboosted EQ, low gain) I found the individual cab to be farty on low hard-hitting notes. The TH clip light was lighting up, but on other cabs I would not notice any issue when it lights up (Glasstone Lil-G, Schroeder 212PL or 210PL, all 4ohm). Needless to say, I was a little discouraged when I left. I promised myself to spend some quality time during the weekend with the pair using the TH500 & GK MBF800, and compare them to the 212PL.

What I surmised from my time with each combination, is that a pair of ML112's is beautiful. Very even tone, controlled low end, lovely top end. In fact the upper mids and treble are the best part of these, IMO. The MB allowed me to get a nice modern tone, and the Aguilar presented a more vintage tone (as expected). The cabs seemed to take EQ very well. The farty concern I had with a single cab was non-existent with the pair: they took hard hitting notes with no issues (and the clip light was no longer activating; I guess I was surprised at that, since the only difference was the 8 vs 4 ohm load; I thought the clip light was indicative of the preamp clipping where the impedance is not yet recognized).

The Schroeder 212PL... HUGE bottom end (think Nicki Minaj), which is too much in some venues/bands. Great for times with little/no FOH, or bass heavy dance music. LOUD. Maybe not something to take home to Mom.
The Baer ML112 pair... Very even sounding, controlled, not brittle AT ALL. More refined bottom end, and top. Definitely power hungry, not as loud. I would only play a single in a small & quiet room (think dinner/cafe music, with a comp to control spikes to the amp).

Oh... did I mention that I LOVE the top end of these?
 
#5,364
CElton said:
It's not the Baer that's running out of steam, it's the TH500. I dig the TH500 and gigged one for 3 years. I recently picked up a GKMBF800 and it was a huge different powering a single ML112. I always get FOH and a single ML112 with the MBF800 can cover 90% of my gigs.
Click to expand...
Yeah... I thought that too. But I tried the single ML112 with the MBF800 and still got farts on hard hitting notes (although noticeably less). I guess in both cases, it was still the amp producing it and not the cab. But it is presenting itself in the single ML112.
 
#5,366
Fishface said:
Yeah... I thought that too. But I tried the single ML112 with the MBF800 and still got farts on hard hitting notes (although noticeably less). I guess in both cases, it was still the amp producing it and not the cab. But it is presenting itself in the single ML112.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. It is, after all, a single 12. Albeit a Super single 12. Volume requirements differ for us all and it sounds like 2 MLs is what you need.

I'll say this though, I've never got a single ML112 to fart out. It must have been hella loud before it got to that point or you were pushing some serious low end.
 
#5,367
Fishface said:
Yeah... I thought that too. But I tried the single ML112 with the MBF800 and still got farts on hard hitting notes (although noticeably less). I guess in both cases, it was still the amp producing it and not the cab. But it is presenting itself in the single ML112.
Click to expand...

Are you having this problem with both the cabs, or just one of them? If it is only one of the cabs, then maybe we need to look into that. Keep in mind that your other cabs are 4 ohms and a single ML112 is 8ohm, so there is a big power difference there running your TH500 into just one cab. It's unusual for one of these to fart out unless you are simply asking too much volume from a single 12" cab. These cabs will handle more than most 12's out there, but they do have their limits and cab power handling capability is greatly affected by a lot of outside forces such as technique and onboard EQ.

If you are still having issues or have question, please contact us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 31HZ
#5,368
CElton said:
Fair enough. It is, after all, a single 12. Albeit a Super single 12. Volume requirements differ for us all and it sounds like 2 MLs is what you need.

I'll say this though, I've never got a single ML112 to fart out. It must have been hella loud before it got to that point or you were pushing some serious low end.
Click to expand...

That's the thing... I had the TH500 flat, my JBass Audere preamp was flat (SD Qtr Pounders), and it wasn't "hella loud". Seriously. But like I said, the clip light was flashing on the TH500 while plucking hard when using the single cab, and didn't when using both (with everything else the same).

So... it could be that I don't understand what a proper cab "fart" is (which is quite possible), and the amp (both TH500 & MBF800) was producing the undesired sound when running one cab.

I always understood the TH500 clip indicator tells when the preamp is clipping, not the amplifier, and the preamp clip might be desired. This was not desirable, unless you have some kind of fart fetish.
 
#5,369
R Baer said:
Are you having this problem with both the cabs, or just one of them? If it is only one of the cabs, then maybe we need to look into that. Keep in mind that your other cabs are 4 ohms and a single ML112 is 8ohm, so there is a big power difference there running your TH500 into just one cab. It's unusual for one of these to fart out unless you are simply asking too much volume from a single 12" cab. These cabs will handle more than most 12's out there, but they do have their limits and cab power handling capability is greatly affected by a lot of outside forces such as technique and onboard EQ.

If you are still having issues or have question, please contact us.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input Roger. This is one of the reasons I bought from you: you are actively listening and responding. I can/will stand behind proprietors like that.
BTW... running together they are tonally beautiful, and are visually beautiful too. Great job!!!

This occurred in both cabs when running individually. It could be my technique when plucking hard, but it only happens from about Bb on down, more so on the E-string, and just when digging in. I'm going to try a different bass this week (Xotic XJ-1T w/ Fralins) to rule out the onboard preamp.

If I am at the limits of the cab, I can & do readily accept that. I am far from technically knowledgeable in this regard, and am willing to run them in tandem at most/all venues (because they sound great together).
 
#5,371
A while back some folks had issues with the Little Mark II clipping easily with an 8ohm load (reportedly addressed with the LMIII), but they were fine running against against 4ohms. Could it be something about the relationship with your bass' output and those two amps when running at 8, but not 4? Does it happen with other 8ohm cabs?
The only micro I used with a single ML112 was rated 500W@8ohms. Even at high volume I never experienced anything you described, although my pickups have lower-than-average output. I let two other guys use that rig in a smaller room with very little PA support, hitting it pretty hard with Js and Ps--no "farting".
 
#5,372
Well... being that the Baer has more clarity, it has apparently made more noticeable the lower strings banging against the fingerboard. I'd even suggest that I might have subconsciously been playing harder with one cab, exacerbating the clanking. This percussive sound might have been what was clipping the TH500.

I raised the action on the E & B strings on the Jazz V (which I had intended to do anyways), and remarkably the amp is not clipping nor is any "farting" sound is produced. I tried it with my Xotic (which is a bit too high for my like right now) and it would not produce it either.

DAMN YOU Roger and your clarity!!! ;)

Apparently my earlier confession that I might not know what is a proper cab fart was correct. Being that sound descriptions are all very subjective, I guess I need some education on "the fart". Good thing for this "anonymous" forum where my reputation won't take a hit. :eyebrow:

I used both basses into the TH500, very light clipping which was more acceptable, and I was able to run it VERY hot into the one ML112. I will again take the TH500, and one cab, with the same bass to this week's rehearsal, and give it the same run through.
 
#5,375
Fishface said:
Well... being that the Baer has more clarity, it has apparently made more noticeable the lower strings banging against the fingerboard.. DAMN YOU Roger and your clarity!!! ;)
Click to expand...

For some players, myself included, there can be a bit of a learning curve with these cabs. Personally, I had spent many years smacking the strings down hard with my right hand in an effort to get a more grindy, upper mid forward type tone from cabinets that really weren't designed to let those frequencies be heard. The downside to this was that I often struggled in the studio to get a really clean sounding track that was absent of fret buzz and string clank. When I first developed the ML cabs, I initially felt there was just way to much upper mids going on because I could hear so much buzz and clank in my tone, that I had never hear before.

It wasn't long however that I noticed that players with really good right good right hand technique were able to get this big, warm, round tone, free of buzz and clank that seemed to be alluding me. So, I became more conscious of the unwanted artifacts in my playing and within a couple months was eventually able to coax out the tone I have been trying to get for decades. A great side effect was that I noticed a significant improvement in my studio tone and I am now able to play much cleaner than before because my ear is now more aware of areas of my technique that needed work. I think the customers who really love their ML cabs the most are the players that treat the cabs like a new instrument, or effect pedal and spend a few months getting to know the cabs and their capabilities.

Cool that you are doing some experimenting with things like pick up height and playing technique, as they obviously make a huge difference. You also might want to double check those batteries as well. I have on more than one occasion spent time troubleshooting my rig for a slight distortion, or farty low end sound coming from my Ken Lawrence bass, only to realize the battery was too low.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fishface
#5,376
Yep... The last time I was in the studio I had the same problem with the clack and technique. I was very glad to figure it out in short order. I've been working on the floating anchor technique on my right hand lately, so I will add working on my stroke to my list.

Thanks for understanding Roger.
 
#5,378
Fishface said:
Yep... The last time I was in the studio I had the same problem with the clack and technique. I was very glad to figure it out in short order. I've been working on the floating anchor technique on my right hand lately, so I will add working on my stroke to my list.
Click to expand...

I took a few lessons from Todd Johnson and he really pushes the floating thumb technique, although I could never quite get the hang of it. Old habits and all. What I noticed form doing a few NAMM shows was that the guys with the biggest, fastest tone actually seem to be playing with the lightest touch in their right hands. Where my approach had always been to really dig in to be heard in the mix, these guys tend to crank up the amp volume and then use a lighter touch, plucking across the strings rather that hitting the strings downwards like I had been doing forever. This technique seems to give a great tone while letting the amp handle the job of being heard. It also a hell of a lot easier on the hand muscles. I still have a lot of work to do in this respect.

Not to say that smacking the hell out of the strings can't work. Just listen to an isolated Geddy track and that tone is just loaded with fret noise and clank. It's part of the sound and works brilliantly in the mix, although I imagine he might have a bit of a problem tracking on a smooth jazz session.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Chef and Fishface
#5,379
R Baer said:
Not to say that smacking the hell out of the strings can't work. Just listen to an isolated Geddy track and that tone is just loaded with fret noise and clank. It's part of the sound and works brilliantly in the mix, although I imagine he might have a bit of a problem tracking on a smooth jazz session.
Click to expand...

There were a few isolated Chris Squire tracks posted here on TB after he passed, and very much the same thing. Clank and fret noise which just burns through the mix. Next time I heard Yes, I focused on it and was able to hear it but had never done so before.


R Baer said:
It wasn't long however that I noticed that players with really good right good right hand technique were able to get this big, warm, round tone, free of buzz and clank that seemed to be alluding me. So, I became more conscious of the unwanted artifacts in my playing and within a couple months was eventually able to coax out the tone I have been trying to get for decades. A great side effect was that I noticed a significant improvement in my studio tone and I am now able to play much cleaner than before because my ear is now more aware of areas of my technique that needed work. I think the customers who really love their ML cabs the most are the players that treat the cabs like a new instrument, or effect pedal and spend a few months getting to know the cabs and their capabilities.
Click to expand...

I found this to be very much the case with me. I used to have a DNS410 that started to make me aware of right hand technique due to all this awful string noise that I hadn't heard before. My solution was to play with an extreme light touch. Then I switched to flats and tapes and was able to start digging in a bit more. Then I got my ML112's and dug the tone way better but still had to refine my technique to ward off evil artifacts. Now my basses that wear rounds get much more playing time and I can get a real nice aggressive tone without much in the way of fret/clank noise.
In short, my Baer cabs made me a better player.

Fishface said:
I always understood the TH500 clip indicator tells when the preamp is clipping, not the amplifier, and the preamp clip might be desired. This was not desirable, unless you have some kind of fart fetish.
Click to expand...

I experienced this once with a single ML112. I was using my 1997 WT400, which with one cab would've had about 240 w on tap. Eq flat and Gain Clip light dancing and cab not sounding the way I thought it should. I'm sure it was the amp as I can pound the cab with any one of my more powerful amps (WT800 or Streamliner 600) and have zero issues. I think the WT400 was the problem in my case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fishface
#5,380
Perhaps this is a good time to talk about a certain bass affliction. A malady if you will..... HAM FIST!!!
I walk around NAMM or Guitar Center, or wherever, and see perfectly normal looking players who's right hand technique is almost Cro Magnon. This is the reason I once refused to let a drunk Michael Anthony sit in on my tiny rig. I just figured he'd kill it with his drunk right hand being used to a million watts and 20 big speaker boxes. (maybe a little exaggeration there) I was afraid of the dreaded HAM FIST!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back