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Baer Amplification Megathread!
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
Tone goals. Hmm... I'm sure most of you know that I really LOVE the sound of the mid loaded cabs we do, but they aren't everyone's cup of tea. So, the new ETH Series cabs were designed to try and bridge the gap between the ML cab's tone with that of more traditional bass cabs that have tweeters. I think the new cabs do that pretty well. If I had to generalize, I'd say the new cabs have a bigger low end, more even mids and less upper mids along with a more extended top end. Reactions to the new ETH cabs at NAMM were really encouraging with about half the people that came into the booth preferring the new cabs and half preferring the ML cabs. I take that as a very good sign.
The new cabs have all new woofers and HF section components. The woofers are a new design for us and we spent over a year working with Eminence to get this just right. It's based off the driver in the ML cabs, but have bigger lows, less upper mids, longer excursion and the ability to handle more power in the low end. The HF section is comprised of a Faital elliptical tractrix horn (ETH) mated to a new ring radiator compression driver from Eminence. They had come out with the N151M8 driver early last year and I was really impressed with the tone, so we asked them to make a ferrite version of that driver. The ring radiator they tweaked for us does what I think is a good job of not sounding so much like a metal diaphragm compression driver, which I typically don't like. With the right crossover design, I think it's got some of that mid driver type feel to it. The Faital horn is a nice design that reduces distortions and colorations found in the average bass tweeter. This HF section is really something more like what you would find in a high end PA cab.
I decided to go with a 112 non-tweeter version for one very simple reason. This horn is really loud and most people will be happy with the L-Pad at around the 8:00 or 9:00 position. That means the horn is plenty loud to handle and extra woofer, or three. So, for those wanting a modular stack, only buying one cab with a tweeter means your stack is both lighter and less expensive compared to buying multiple cabs with horns and then turning them all off. The non-tweeter is not intended to be used as a stand alone cab.
The cabs at NAMM were prototypes but we are already into ordering things like drivers, grills and crossovers, so I'm guessing we will be about 4 months out for delivery on these. Specs are as follows:
ETH112 350watts 17"w x 20"h x 15 7/8"d Weight 36Lbs.
ETH112-NT 350watts 17"w x 20"h x 15 7/8"d Weight 33 lbs.
ETH212 700watts 20"w x 28"h x 15 7/8"d Weight 54lbs.
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
That picture of the Valkyrie on top of that ETH212 is going to haunt my dreams.
I just know it.
I just know it.
We're crossed over around 2.5K, which is a bit lower than most cabs. It's just part of the whole woofer/tweeter dynamic. There are some compression drivers out there that would let us go a little lower, but the difference to your ear compared to the big increase in cost wouldn't be worth it. This setup does about as good a job as I could hope within this type of format.
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Haven't posted here in some time because I finally found "that sound" once I bought one of those elusive ML212s a few years ago. Here's a pic from my last gig a couple weeks ago. I've been in love with Ampeg tube tone ever since my parents were silly enough to buy me an SVT, 810, and an Acoustic 301 cab back in the 70s. I found that sound again once I paired the reissue V4B with the ML212. I recall my conversation with Roger before I purchased that cab ... every time I set up my rig up I thank my lucky stars I was fortunate enough to get my hands on one. I can imagine the sound of the new 212 design, but can't see how it could be better that what I have now. Thanks to Roger for curing my GAS! I love my Baer cab and can't see ever selling it. Thanks again Roger!
What a cool rig! Thanks for posting a pic of it. And honestly, I wouldn't say the new cab line is going to be "better"... just different. The ETH212 will have a very different tone, so if the ML cabs give you that sound in your head, then you would probably still prefer them to the new cabs with a horn. I found at NAMM that the preferences were pretty evenly split, which is really what I was hoping for. I really want to bring the ML212 back at some point. I just have to get the size, weight and cost down, which I think I can do now. It was the first cab I designed and I still totally dig the unique tone that comes out of this thing!
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- Apr 3, 2003
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- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
For anyone located within a reasonable drive of northwest Ohio, you can get your hands and ears on some killer Baer Amplification gear (and check out some PHENOMENAL clinicians) at the Invalid Link Removed on April 20-22! 
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
Would the ML and the ETH 12's work together well or not so much? (Or for that matter, an ML and the NT)?
And what is your projected price point on the new cabs? (If you have one yet that is).
Thanks Roger.
I've tried the ML112 and ETH112 together and thought it was really good. As far as the ML112 and an ETH112-NT, I'm not sure one mid driver would be enough for the two woofers, but I'll have to try that out and let you know. Prices aren't set yet, but I expect them to be competitive with offers from companies like Bergantino and Genzler. We haven't raised the cost on the ML112's in many years, so the price on those will probably be going up soon.
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
How are y'all vertically stacking your ML112 pairs. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I stacked them vertically, how would I orientate the speakers? Would I stack them 6/12 + 6/12, the way the cabs would stack "normally" due to the factory placement of the rubber feet. Or should I stack them 12/6 + 6/12. This would be with one cab "upside down" and the other "right side up". I trying to figure out if there is a benefit of flipping one the cabs and thus having the 6" mid drivers in-line with each other.
Chef
In Memoriam
Well
Those are fearful cubes and you can do that more readily.
I stack the ML112's "normally" with excellent results, and have for years. The ML have two sets of rubber feet on each cab, for their two intended orientations
The difference bt these two approaches will be minimal.
Those are fearful cubes and you can do that more readily.
I stack the ML112's "normally" with excellent results, and have for years. The ML have two sets of rubber feet on each cab, for their two intended orientations
The difference bt these two approaches will be minimal.
My stacking orientation depends on the amount of space I have, rather than how it sounds. I love them in either.
Last Saturday it was this
Last Saturday it was this
Wish I could check out a Valkyrie,,, don't know that I could buy one at this point in my life, but I still have a little GAS going on there. Not sure about the sound, but the design and philosophy behind it really appeal to me.
As far as the future market,,, class D seems to be it, and there are just a million different options... most are just OK IMO. I think Mesa and Quilter are doing it right. I like the simplicity (and tone and power) of the quilter, but it's missing a few features I think.
I really think the future is something like the noble. A great pre amp, with a killer DI that you can use for anything... live, studio, in ears, with pedals, etc. Sans amp, Mesa, Ampeg,, Aguilar, etc, all kind of have something like this,, but again, not great.
Noble seems to have broken through. A true do it all tool for a bass player that is the best quality. If you like the noble sound. The lack of mid knob seems to really trouble some people.
Maybe the Valkyrie in some kind of format like this would work.
I also agree that powered cabs are going to become more popular as they get better. I see lots of guys starting to use the QSC K series cabs. I myself have been thinking about a Noble into a K12.
As far as the future market,,, class D seems to be it, and there are just a million different options... most are just OK IMO. I think Mesa and Quilter are doing it right. I like the simplicity (and tone and power) of the quilter, but it's missing a few features I think.
I really think the future is something like the noble. A great pre amp, with a killer DI that you can use for anything... live, studio, in ears, with pedals, etc. Sans amp, Mesa, Ampeg,, Aguilar, etc, all kind of have something like this,, but again, not great.
Noble seems to have broken through. A true do it all tool for a bass player that is the best quality. If you like the noble sound. The lack of mid knob seems to really trouble some people.
Maybe the Valkyrie in some kind of format like this would work.
I also agree that powered cabs are going to become more popular as they get better. I see lots of guys starting to use the QSC K series cabs. I myself have been thinking about a Noble into a K12.
scotch
It's not rocket science!
- Nov 12, 2006
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- Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
I just picked up a Puma900 to use as a practice rig with my ML112. Great, great tone that got multiple "hey the bass sounds good tonight" comments. All the components were there: pants-fluffing yet controlled low-end, slightly grindy mids that cut through the too-loud guitar well, highs that didn't cut or shimmer too much.
Sounds like a nice tone.
I think neo-cabs and class D amps have come a long way since I started, and especially over just the past few years. I also think that small combos (and even no-amps pedal board rigs) are the thing. Even guitar players seem to be giving up the 50w heads/412 cabs in favor of of 20w/112 combos.
At this point my Quilter BB800 and Berg CN210 is looking really good and could do most of my gigs. My CN212 is only a little bigger, and can handle pretty much any gig I would ever do. On the biggest stages, I just have it right next to me and let the PA do the heavy lifting. Again, why the DI thing is becoming so important to bass players, and why the DI/pre format is becoming such a thing.
Something like the Noble into a Demeter Mini 800 is essentially about the same as an Alembic F-1x into a big ole QSC power amp.
